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Wendell Bragg

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9020 Restore/Resurection


wwbragg

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Been sitting around for 5 years and finally coming to the top of the Queue.  Saw it on craigslist and immediately called at around 8PM.  It was located about two hours away so I asked the guy if he would hold it for me.  He said no, as he had other interested parties.  I asked if I could come up that night.  He said, "You want it that badly"?  I said, "Yeah, I have been looking for one."  So he said he would hold it.  Got it the next day for $350.  It came with a 5 ft deck, front blade, rototiller and a vacuum system but no gas tank.  

When I brought it home, I got it to fire by squirting fuel into the carb.  I added a gas tank but now it won't run and the starter seems to have died.  I tried to use an impact drill to turn it over for a compression test but no.  Rather than start throwing parts at it, I decided to repower with a Predator 670 Honda clone.

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First step is to pull the old Onan.  I will probably try to sell it so I didn't want to use the Onan dual pulley on the repower so I ran a "wanted"  ad in classifieds.  CTD01 had one at a reasonable price (thanks, Paul).

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The next step is to build a flywheel adaptor.  Small Engine Warehouse used to use the Honda 670 in their repower kit so they used to have an adaptor.  But they have switched to the Briggs twin.  The Briggs repower kit is around $1800 plus shipping.  The Predator came up on sale for about $730 and is 25 miles away.  Oh dear.  What ever shall I do?? 

So I started measuring and came up with this:

Now, when it comes to 'beat to fit and paint to match' I have no equal.  But I lack the precision tools needed for this thing so with a 4" aluminum round I headed off to my local machine shop.  $150 later, I have an adaptor.

 

 

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maxwood

Posted (edited)

Hello, Here is a plan, that I used to repower  a sovereign  with a predator 22 hp.  I used the rubber donut and the kohler cast iron adapter.

Your adapter looks very good  ,nice work!

 

Thanks Ken In Mi.

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Edited by maxwood
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wwbragg

Posted (edited)

The Predator/Powermax adaptor must not only connect directly to the shaft with the fiber disk (which on the Powermax is the rear PTO) but you have to use the Onan flywheel pulley to run the main drive line.  It has to clear the engine fan so it has to be at least 2" thick and it has to be wide enough to hold the fan to the flywheel. 

The adaptor and pully assembly is pretty heavy.  That, along with the strain that will be imposed by the drive line, well frankly, I am a little worried about the extra strain on the bearing.  I guess we'll see.

Next step is to build a mounting platform to raise the Predator  3 3/4" off the frame.  My first thought was to use a couple of 4x4 (actual 3 1/2 x 3 1/2)wooden blocks with a 1/4"  steel plate on top.  But then I wouldn't get to practice with my welder.

PS:  Anybody know the correct torque on the Predator flywheel bolt? (M12 - 1.25)

 

Edited by wwbragg
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wwbragg

Posted (edited)

Here is a shot with the adaptor and pulley mounted on the motor.  I had a hard time finding the correct torque for the flywheel bolt.  Research yielded readings from 87 ft lbs to 95 ft lbs.  The firm where I bought the bolt wouldn't tell me anything because I had die cut threads back past the original threads.  He told me that cut threads are not as strong as the original rolled threads which I did not know.  I settled on 90 ft lbs.

Now to fabricate the mounting plate which has to be 3 3/4"  off the frame.  Not correct.  The mounting plate needs to be 3 1/4 off the frame.

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Edited by wwbragg
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Hello, That is some great engineering. How are you going to modify the debris screen around the pulleys. when I did mine i kind of snipped way  the center , till I had clearance , but it was kind of floppy.

 

Thanks Ken in Mi

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1 hour ago, maxwood said:

i kind of snipped away  the center

I'll do the same.  Just measure the pulley and snip a hole large enough to fit over it.

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maxwood

Posted (edited)

 Hello, I had thought of trying to make a metal ring to reinforce the plastic & add a screen to keep the grass out .

but I never did .

 

Make sure you don't over fill the oil, or it will smoke like crazy like a fogger  the engine is sensitive to overfilling.

It does have a low oil shutdown .

 

Thanks Ken in Mi

Edited by maxwood
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On ‎2‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 5:29 PM, maxwood said:

add a screen to keep the grass out

Good idea.  I'll hold it in with zip ties.

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wwbragg

Posted (edited)

Here is the rear PTO yoke from my Powermax (PN 175229).  When I removed it, the bushings (PN 2177943SM) came out in crumbled pieces.  Partstree wants $12 each and there are 6 of them on the tractor in various places.  Don’t know what they are made of but they measure ½” ID by ¾” OD and 7/8” tall.  Brass seemed TOO hard so I decided to use nylon bushings.  I had a heck of a time finding the 7/8 size but I finally found some at 1”.  I bought 10 for around $15 (PM to me if you need my source). 

One was a little tight so I pressed it in with a 5/16 bolt and washers.  The other one slipped right in.  Then, while in the yoke, I cut off the excess with a hack saw.

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wwbragg

Posted (edited)

Not quite done with the mounting plate but here is what I have so far.  I drilled ½” holes to match the original mounting holes in angle iron from an old bed frame.  I then welded the angle iron to opposite sides of a piece of ¼ x 3” flat stock.  Pieces of ¼ x 4” flat stock will go on top of that.  That will give 3 1/4" of lift for the new motor.  Yeah, ok.  The welds are not very pretty, but not all that bad for an old accountant.

I measured (about 10,000 times) the original Onan to locate the drive shaft centerline in relation to the engine mounting holes.  I found that the center of the driveshaft is 6 1/8” from the center of the mounting hole on each side.

Next, I will mark the centerline on the top of the mounting plate and match that to the driveshaft centerline on the New Predator motor, drill the mounting holes and weld the plates onto the side plates described above.

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Edited by wwbragg
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gwiseman

Posted

Great work and progress Wendell. Ken’s Sovereign Predator transplant is truly sweet and I’m looking forward to watching your project come together.

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wwbragg

Posted (edited)

I haven't welded the top plates onto to sides yet.  I wanted to check for fit.  WOW ~  That is one tight fit.  I had to replace two of the cute little cap nuts on the bottom of the fan housing with standard nuts.  Then I had to remove the belt guide just to get it in (it can go back in).  The front of the oil pan is right up against the frame and the pullies are still not in alignment.  The only solution I can come up with is to shave some off of the flywheel adaptor.  But then the fan housing will press against the oil cooler.  Perhaps I can replace that arched oil cooler with an oil cooler from an air cooled VW.  Maybe I'll come up with something in my sleep.  

Oh!  I just had an epiphany!  I would still have to shave some off of the back of the adaptor to get the pullies to line up.  But I could shave off the top outer pully and just use one belt.  That would give me more room for the fiber disk and all the spacers and special washers.  On the other hand, when the original Onan was in and the pullies lined up, there was plenty of room for the disk and spacers.  "Help me Obi-Wan.  You are my only hope."

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Edited by wwbragg
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I would opt for a yanmar 3 cyl diesel.3TN72 Ive got a spare running one here,,compl w radiator. I believe.China motors are good BUT change the oil a few times as they were built Ive been told in not clean enviornments btw, adapt looks great!

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wwbragg

Posted

Interesting that you should suggest a Yanmar.  My son-in-law has a grey-market Yanmar with a blown tranny.  Can't get parts so he says I can have it.  Then I could use the Predator on another Simplicity.

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Brighammer

Posted

SO... I had decided to buy the SEW Briggs kit, but decided, last night, after seeing this post, to do the Predator swap.
Not sure if I made the RIGHT choice. But i made a choice and have started.

I feel fairly confident in my abilities, fresh off a successful diesel swap into my 91 Mazda B2600i 4x4. Especially after seeing others have also attempted it.

Thanks for the inspiration!

 

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wwbragg

Posted

7 hours ago, Brighammer said:

Thanks for the inspiration!

OK, but you may not be so thankful when you get into it but hey, there it is.  Happy to help any way I can - - -come on up.

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Brighammer

Posted

On 4/23/2019 at 4:14 PM, wwbragg said:

OK, but you may not be so thankful when you get into it but hey, there it is.  Happy to help any way I can - - -come on up.

Eh. I think it will work out. Somehow. 

I've noticed that the outfit that uses Honda engines still says you have to notch the front cross member. I anticipate having to do that as well.

Also figure on running a miniature one wire alternator on the engine 

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Brighammer

Posted

So is the onan double pulley just held on by the 2 bolts from the fiber disc and adapter?

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wwbragg

Posted (edited)

9 hours ago, Brighammer said:

onan double pulley

The pulley is "held on" by the single crankshaft bolt in the center.  I have mine torqued to about 95 ft lbs.  The 2 bolts you mention are simply to hold the fiber disk and spacers against the flywheel or in this case, the adaptor.  As I discussed recently above, the pulley didn't align properly so I had it milled back 1/8 inch.  But I haven't had time to get back to it since then.  Looking forward to more fun once I get caught up with other tasks.

I'd like more info on notching the front cross member.  Where did you find that info??  Seems to me that would have to be a pretty big chunk.

Edited by wwbragg
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wwbragg

Posted (edited)

9 hours ago, wwbragg said:

"held on" by the single crankshaft bolt

I forgot to mention the three 8 MM bolts (I think they are 8MM) that position the adaptor on the flywheel.  The Predator motor has a plastic fan which is held against the flywheel with a large flat washer (tray) which is held on by these three bolts.  In our case, the new adaptor will serve instead of the tray (to hold the fan in place) so I had to get longer bolts.  They will help prevent the adaptor from spinning on the flywheel but the single crankshaft bolt ( at 95 ft lbs) in the center is what really holds the pulley and adaptor on.

Edited by wwbragg
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Brighammer

Posted

Response from repower specialists: "The way our system works is that any customer report of a modification is added to the product as a “tech note.” In this case, we have had 1 customer that has said they needed to make this modification. As such, we ask that our customers be prepared to make the modification if they purchase this product. The modification made was a “notch.” This means it was a metal cut to the frame in the shape of a “V”. This was for clearance of the new PTO Clutch included in the kit. As I mentioned, this cut would be on the frame crossmember that runs across your frame in front of the engine on the electric PTO side. The cut would have been minor, 2-3 square inches if I had to estimate."

 

i was also told it's their policy to not sell any parts of the kit outside the kit. But that they do provide "superior" post-sales technical assistance should any problems arise. 

 

on another note I got my new adapter in so I can drill then tap it and start yarding out the running-but-not-charging Onan and start the predator install. 

i also start a new job(after 4 years of self employment) on Monday. So let's see how long it takes me. Lol

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Brighammer

Posted

Just fired up the predator repower you accidentally convinced me i should do. Hood closes and all!

 

How's your project?

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wwbragg

Posted (edited)

26 minutes ago, Brighammer said:

How's your project?

I got side tracked but you have re-inspired me.  I'll be back at it soon.  How did you raise the engine?  Build a platform?

Edited by wwbragg
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