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SmilinSam

Vanguard Installation-one more Question

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SmilinSam
Got the 16hp Vanguard twin installed in the 917 Ac today. Driveshaft hooked up , exaust built up. Looks good. I'll get pictures as soon as I get the carb issue resolved. I took the carb apart and thought I cleaned it good. Put a new float valve in, put it back together and it still will only run if I meter the fuel in the carb bore with a fuel bulb by hand. Checked the fuel pump and its working fine. I see there is some sort of solenoid at the base of the carb. Could this be the problem? or do I need to "try Again" on the cleaning process? Hoping to wrap this one up tomorrow.

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SmilinSam
Also I see there are the two wires coming out of the engine that hook to the Regulator, then one wire comes out of the regulator and ties into the battery circuit at the switch when the switch is in the "On" position. But, there is also another third wire coming out from under the shroud that hooks to another tab on the keyswitch that also recieves power when the key is both in the "on" and "start" positions. Would that be going to that solenoid on the carb by chance? and what does that solenoid do? The other vanguaurd I have sitting here does not have a solenoid on the carb nor does it have that "third" wire coming out of the engine.

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rokon2813
to be honest without going to the garage and looking I cant answer the wiring question but it would make sense thats what the third wire is for. Somehow that solenoid shuts off the fuel to the carb. I got my info from Mel when I was working on the vanguard by jumping the starter without having a battery hooked up. Till I put power to the key to energize that solenoid it wouldnt run without putting gas to the carb.

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PatRarick
Sam, following the color code for the wires on mine, the wire from the regulator is red. The wire from the anti-afterfire solenoid of the carb is black. That solenoid could be your problem. It has a plunger that that plugs the main jet when when the power is disconnected. The idea is that when you shut the engine down and kill the spark, the engine is still drawing in fuel until it's rotation ceases. That fuel goes right out the exhaust, since there is no spark to ignite it. The heat from the muffler will sometimes ignite this raw fuel, creating a loud "backfire", or afterfire. The solenoid is supposed to prevent afterfire by shutting the fuel off when the engine is shut down. No fuel - no explosion. You should hear the solenoid click when power is applied to it. You can unscrew the solenoid, ground it, and look to see if the stem pulls back when power is applied. If it does, the solenoid is working. You can check the operation of the carb by removing the solenoid and plugging the hole in the carb bowl with an appropriate size cork, providing the cork does not protrude into the bowl enough to reach the main jet. DO THIS ONLY AS A TEST - DO NOT ATTEMPT TO USE THE CORK AS A REPLACEMENT FOR THE SOLENOID. If the solenoid is the culprit, it is expensive to replace. In most cases, it is not necessary, particularly if you idle the engine down to let it cool for a few seconds before you shut it down. It is mainly for engines operating in a tight area, or those that operate at a constant speed and cannot be idled down before you shut them down. You can just cut the plunger off so that it doesn't plug the jet. The engines that do not have this solenoid just have a plug screwed into the carb. I've never checked, but unless the threads or hole size is different, there is a possibility that you could get the plug from Briggs. Pat

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SmilinSam
This was indeed a engine with a fixed speed ( full throttle) setting, while the other vanguard was on a tractor. Now I understand what the solenoid is for. I can likley just take the plug out of the other vangaurd and install in this one. I'll get right on it. Thanks! Hey Pat, Where did you get the muffler and manifold for the vanguard in your tractor?

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PatRarick
Sam, On my B-series, I used a Briggs OEM #807752 manifold and muffler kit. This puts the exhaust at rouughly the same location as the tractor's original muffler. On the 900 series, I picked up some parts off of e-Bay and built my own system. I bought a couple of exhaust manifolds from one seller, and a couple of mufflers from another, then cut and welded to make the exhaust fit and exit in the original tractor's location. Will post some pics later today. Pat

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PatRarick
Sam, Here are some photos of the Briggs OEM exhaust system on my HB-212:

It sits a little lower than the original tractor muffler, but doesn't extend from the side quite as far. Looking at my 914, it looks like this system would work on the 700 and 900 series if you don't mind an external muffler. Here are pictures of the exhaust system that I built for my 914. Don't look too close at the welding. Sunday and I had a dirty tip on my wire feed so the wire was sticking. Too excited to get it done, so it took it as it came. It was a prototype anyway.:D This one shows the brackets welded to the manifold and the muffler to support the exhaust shield

This one shows where the original manifold was capped off. The new outlet is partially hidden in the shadow, but is at about the 1:00 position.

This one shows the exhaust pipe welded to the muffler's original outlet, exhausting through the tractor's original outlet.

Here is a top view with the muffler shield from the original Kohler K-321 altered to fit my engine and exhaust system.

In addition, here is how I did the oil filter using the Briggs OEM alternate 90 degree oil filter mount. Not shown is the oil pressure light switch which sits inside the frame, pointing straight down

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HubbardRA
Sam, I had a Vanguard with a solenoid that didn't work. I took it out of the carb and drilled out the needle valve. It is still running today on a tractor that I sold to a friend. That solenoid is an anto diesel valve. It cuts the fuel as soon as the engine is turned off. Engine runs fine if it is disabled.

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SmilinSam
Solenoid was shot so I pulled it out took my end knippers to the plunger and cut that baby right off! My $70 Engine runs great!:D [img]http://a3.cpimg.com/image/8F/3E/20421263-c2cf-020001D8-.jpg[/img] Not sure if the muffler will stay like this but it works for now. Pat, I bought a Vanguard exaust manifold off Ebay too for peanuts and had two more others here. At this point I just used the one piecer and welded a 1" pipe fitting on the end and used a street L to attach the muffler. Sounds like the low tone of the original B series ( the sound that Kent likes8D) only "throatier". [img]http://a4.cpimg.com/image/90/3E/20421264-486f-028001E0-.jpg[/img] My good buddy up north, Member Bill Wells, supplied me with a filter relocation kit(originally ordered from member Al Eden) and I moved the filter around infront of the engine on the right side using some pipe nipples to extend the rubber part of the hose away from the muffler. Everything seems to fit in neatly this way.

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PatRarick
Looks good, Sam. What did you use to connect the driveshaft to the engine? It appears that you did as I, and used the cast iron adapter from the 10hp Briggs single. I also used two of the aluminum spacers from the 10hp, having to alter the one that is against the flywheel. As to the oil filter, on subsequent conversions, I also used the remote oil filter mount. I installed it in the left front of the frame, mounted high enough that the oil filter doesn't protrude below the frame. A word of advice: Pay attention to your engine operating temperature. Originally, I didn't install the muffler shield OR the shield that goes between the blower housing and the battery/fuel tank area. I wound up with overheating and vapor locking issues until I installed those shields. Could be my muffler design and placement, but I'm not sure. Seems to be the wrong direction for engine cooling air flow, but my feet and ankles actually got too hot to be comfortable without the shield that goes between the engine and the battery/fuel tank area. Pat Added: I just noticed the frame cutout for the twin cylinder engine. It appears that the cutout would allow clearance for the standard Briggs muffler for your manifold, and it wouldn't protrude outside of the frame. Just a thought.

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SmilinSam
I did indeed use the cast iron adaptor off an older 10hp cast briggs and two of the aluminum spacers. I didn't see any need to modify them though. I just put the cupped sides towards each other with the flats to the flywheel and adaptor. I was worried about things maybe being out of balance but I havn't noticed any vibration worse than what was there with the other engine in place. I did get the muffler that went to this manifold too, but with the oil lines in place where they are I lack about 1 1/2 inch of clearance. I was planning on putting the shield back in place between the engine and fuel tank, (If I can find it). I have one for over the manifold, but need to work on mounting it. I was going to wait and see how it performed first with the muffler out to the side. I want to do better on the muffler, but will have to give it some time to come up with something that looks good and works well.

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PatRarick
Evidently, you have the older style flywheel with the cast in fins? Mine has the flywheel with the plastic cooling fan that bolts to the flywheel. That is why I had to alter the aluminum spacer that is against the engine. As to the muffler that went with this manifold, with the exception of the filter lines, would the muffler clear the frame? Pat

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SmilinSam
I believe it would clear the frame height wise. It would still stick out the side of the tractor some though. Yes, its a cast fin flywheel. Code says its a 1998 engine. What did you use to raise yours up the required inch to sit in the frame at the right height? I found that the riser plates from a Wheel Horse GT 1100( 11 HP Briggs powered) works well. The VAngaurd bolted right to that without any mods, and the two holes in the plate at the flywheel side bolted right into the tractor frame where the Briggs and Kohler singles would normally be. All I had to do was mark and drill the 2 holes on the PTO side of the plate on through the tractor frame. Real easy installation. I just bought another one of those plates off EBay for $12, just in case I want to do this again.

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PatRarick
I raised the engine 7/8". Made my adapter plate from two pieces of 7/8" X 7/8" X 3/16" angle iron and a piece of 3/16" flat plate. I'll have to do some checking, but I believe the Kohler V-twin has the same bolt pattern as the Vanguard V-twin. I have checked with my Simplicity dealer, and was told that the adapter plate is available from Simplicity for $25 or $30. I found that adapting the engine to the driveshaft in the manner that you and I did, puts the oil drain of the engine slightly to the rear of the oil drain hole in the frame. On my later conversions, I used the Briggs OEM booster fan and spacer for the Vanguard. This puts the oil drain right in line with the oil drain hole in the frame. Of course in both cases, the drain is too high to exit through the side of the drain hole in the frame. Pipe nipples and and an elbow brings the drain to the bottom of the hole. I also noticed that the governer spring tension on the Vanguard is pretty strong. Had to tighten the nut on the throttle control of the tractor to get get enough friction to hold. Pat

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SmilinSam
I used a short pipe nipple and a 90 degree fitting set on a slight angle to the oil drain hole in the frame. Works pretty good. I was going to use one of those booster fan/spacer but I broke trying to get it off an engine thats been out on the weather ..

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