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IronPony

"Can you weld on a Kohle block? (Now w/Pics) SUCCE

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IronPony
THANKS TO ALL THE FOLKS BELOW THAT TOOK THE TIME TO MAKE SUGGESTIONS AND COMMENTS. USED REPEATED APPLICATIONS OF P-OIL AND TAPPING AND A PIPE WRENCH AND FINALLY SHE CAME OFF. COULD NOT BELIEVE IT WHEN IT STARTED TO TURN|):):D This K341 is really giving me problems, more problems. The exhaust is just a peace of commone galvenized pipe that is now rusted/rust welded in the block. It is about 6" long so I can use it if I can figure a way. The threads are all but gone due to rust. but I thought if I can weld on it I can use it as is. Other wise I need to find a way to remove it from the block.:(Is is possible to electric weld (mig) on this pipe without causing damage to the engine? Thanks. Hope to get some good advice. Dan

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SimonA
Dan It is possible to mig weld to your existing exhaust stub. Cut off the rusted outer end (the threaded part?). Clean any rust and galvanizing off with a file or grinder. You will need to find a pipe that will be a push fit over the stub. When you have this fit a muffler to it, don't weld it straight on, use a clamp or thread it on, makes it easy to change out later. Now the welding. Disconect the tractor battery. Push the pipe on to the stub about 2", use an Anti Spatter spray around the area to weld and around the engine( you will get some at a welding supply store). Weld the joint in short bursts, this will keep the heat down. Hope this helps. Simon.

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RayS
Have you tried a rust penatrating oil? Let it soak a while then start the engine and let the pipe get hot and try to take it off with a pipe wrench. this has worked for me in the past. Then chase the threads with a 1 inch tap.

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Leroy
quote:
Originally posted by howlanddm
This K341 is really giving me problems, more problems. The exhaust is just a peace of commone galvenized pipe that is now rusted/rust welded in the block. It is about 6" long so I can use it if I can figure a way. The threads are all but gone due to rust. but I thought if I can weld on it I can use it as is. Other wise I need to find a way to remove it from the block.:(Is is possible to electric weld (mig) on this pipe without causing damage to the engine? Thanks. Hope to get some good advice. Dan
Dan The pipe is steel and the block is not. One resource would be the equipment rental agency. The small engine Mechanic has to do stuff out of the ordinary many times. Or a phone call to a plumber or pipe supply and ask them if the have a tap the size of your pipe hole then go on to ask them if they get a rotted pipe piece out of your engine block. I think they have the technology weather they want to do the work or just what to charge for it.

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Dutch
Whenever you weld on an engine (or any other machinery) make sure your circuit does not travel through any moving parts. For example, if welding on the exhaust pipe DON'T clamp your ground cable to the crankshaft. The circuit path will be across the crankshaft bearings and destroy them.

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IronPony
Thanks to all ! ! The engine is still on my work bench. Once in my AC I will try the pen oil and see if I can get the pipe to turn out of the block. Right now all I am doing soaking it in the pen oil because I can't enough leverage on a pipe wrench to do any good. With the current set up, the exhaust and muffler won't clear my hood to close the hood. Dan [img]http://www.simpletractors.com/club2/attach/howlanddm/DSC00163.JPG[/img] [img]http://www.simpletractors.com/club2/attach/howlanddm/DSC00162.JPG[/img]

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UCD
Dan Rap on the pipe with a hammer to brake lose some of the rust so the oil will soak into the threads. Use a smaller pipe wrench that will fit in there and a piece of pipe for a wrench ext. to get more leverage. I would remove the carb. before I did this to prevent damage to it also with the carb. off you could apply heat with a torch to the block and pipe.

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Leroy
I would use a loaded chain wrench and use brake fluid and give it 10 or 15 minutes of soak time on that, after removing the carb. If it does budge use a bit more and continue to rock it. If it is not workable by back and forth attempts to dislodge it. Clean the brake fluid off if it does not work. Get your box fan and turn it on to blow the fumes away from you as your doing this. Add just a wee bit of heat from oxy / acet or map gas and ever so slowly on turning If it doesnt move add a bit more. a concrete block would be enough weight hanging on the chain wrench as the heat is evenly distributed and focused on the pipe and away from the engine block. and subsequent dousings of the material you are useing for pen oil.

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PatRarick
After removing the carb, I heat the pipe red hot, let it cool until it is no longer red, rap on it a few times and try to unscrew it. Usually comes after the first try, but has never taken more than three attempts. Another method I have used is to cut the pipe off even with the block. Using a hacksaw blade, cut all the way through the pipe in two places, 180 degrees apart. You will have to cut at least part way through the threads in the block, but that doesn't present a problem. A hammer and chisel will then knock out each half of the stub. Pat

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jlasater
You might be able to hit the pipe hard right next to the block with a large cold chisel/hammer and dent it in enough to spin it out, basically partially collapsing the pipe.

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thedaddycat
One trick I've seen used before for getting stuck fasteners apart is to pull on the wrench and then hit the end with a hammer. The shock of the hammer blow will act like an impact driver and sometimes free it up.

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arnoldir
I'm going to second PatRarick's suggestion about cutting it and splitting it from inside. I've done it that way a few times and it has worked well. I use a dremel tool with a carbide cutter and make a single cut at the bottom (6 O'clock). I'll leave a bit of pipe sticking out past the block (1/4") to have something to grab, and then with vise grips try and roll the pipe up into itself. Good luck.

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Scotmo
After you remove the carb heat the block around the exhaust threads nice and hot then take a C02 fire extingusher and spray the pipe it self (not the block). Quickly and firmly pull on the pipe with a large pipe wrench and it should come out no problem. My father-in-law showed me this trick removing the original exhaust system from a 1923 Dodge Brothers Screenside Pick up.... I was amazed how well it worked. Of course he let me work on it for a few hours before he showed up at my house and shared his knowledge LOL....Hope this helps Scot

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HubbardRA
Dan, to answer your original question. Yes, you can weld to that piece of pipe if you wish. Clamp your ground directly to the pipe. I have built several stack exhausts. Welded them all with 1/8 inch rod on a "buzz box". The stack on my 61 Wards was tacked together that way, then taken off for the final welding. On that one, I made a pipe that tightly slid over the pipe in the engine, then clamped the two together.

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Leroy
quote:
Originally posted by PatRarick
After removing the carb, I heat the pipe red hot, let it cool until it is no longer red, rap on it a few times and try to unscrew it. Usually comes after the first try, but has never taken more than three attempts. Another method I have used is to cut the pipe off even with the block. Using a hacksaw blade, cut all the way through the pipe in two places, 180 degrees apart. You will have to cut at least part way through the threads in the block, but that doesn't present a problem. A hammer and chisel will then knock out each half of the stub. Pat
Do you back fill the saw cuts in the threads with JB weld?

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Leroy
That approach will apply even greater pressure to the outside of the threads unless the dent extends to the depth of the pipe. To prove this point on paper you need tube of paper and dent it as you would the pipe. now check the circumfrence of the area near the base of the dent. Pat Rarick's idea will work. My idea has worked. But most of us are here to learn. Good ideas here.

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IronPony
No one had shown any worry about damage to the block. Should I consider the block to be much stronger than the pipe? Can I use a 3lb sledge hammer to rap on the pipe without to much fear of cracking the block? Dan PS - Sure wish I had an oxy/act toarch to heat it up with. That appears to be the most effective method so far.?? How well would a propane torch work to heat it up?

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PatRarick
Leroy, I just leave the cuts in the threads. Hasn't bothered on one yet. Dan, as to the hammer, I have used a 32oz, but haven't hit REAL hard. Don't know how hard to tell you to rap it, but I have rapped hard enough where I have feared for the block. A propane torch may work, but it will take more time. Propane alone will heat up the area more slowly thus more heat is transferred to the parts that don't need it. Realistically the transferred heat is being wasted instead of heating the part you want heated. Pat Pat

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HubbardRA
If you want to cut the pipe off and then split the remnants to remove, you can use a jigsaw or a sawsall with a metal blade to both cut off the pipe and split the remaining ring. I have also used a die grinder with a small stone to grind the material away and then use a screwdriver of small chisel to break the weakened part of the ring and fold the end inward to release it from the block.

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Agricola
When I mentioned cutting off the pipe and then denting it, I usually run that dent all the way to the bottom of the pipe. If the material is so thin that a pipe wrench won't do it's job, then I find this to be a good option.

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