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IronPony

AC712 now 716 w/picture

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IronPony
Well, the K341 is now in and running. :D So, my AC712S is now an AC716S which I don't think was part of the AC line up. Does anyone know if there ever was a 16hp shuttle?? [img]http://www.simpletractors.com/club2/attach/howlanddm/DSC00094.JPG[/img] NEXT question - coming from the key switch/under the dash is a three wire harness. One black wire in the middle and two yellow, one on each side. I connected the wire from the + side of the coil to the center black wire and she starts and runs. What are the yellow wires for and where do they attach?? Dan

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HubbardRA
Dan, Wish I could help you. I have a 716H with a 10 Hp B/S transplant, and The one that I have been calling an AC712S that I have built entirely from a pile of parts. It also has a B/S engine. I also have a 61 Wards with a 14Hp Kohler. Unfortunately I have had to create my own wiring for all three, so I don't know what wiring came on any of them, or the original color codes. I know that you can hook the alternator wire to any terminal that is switched hot when the engine is running other than the ignition wire. The two wires must be disconnected from one another when the switch is off. Sorry I can't be more help!

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PatRarick
There were a few 16hp shuttles, but I could find none that were Simplicity built with the AC designation. For Simplicity, I found a 3416S, and a 7116S, but none in the 7000 series. There was a Homelite (Allis built) T-16S, and the AC 400 series had a 416S. There may have been others, but that is all I could find. Pat

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BLT
I tried chasing down your wiring problem and I can't find the color match up. If you have the 712 product number I can chase another way. As close as I get, the other two wires have to do with your charging circuit but I can't find one the with the colors you mentioned. BT

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Dutch
The K-series Kohlers used several different alternator configurations. Some 712 Allis tractors used a 3 amp unregulated system. Does your tractor have a rectifier/regulator? If not, the OEM engine used an unregulated system. Before wiring can be determined, you have to know what you had and what you have now. Also, the engine swap looks nice. Are you going to now rebuild the K-301 oil burner?

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IronPony
Dutch, thanks for the reply. I have determined there is no rerulator/rectifier. on either the K301 or the K341. The 341 came off a start all unit and was set up to start off the vehicle battery that the unit was mounted in. The original starter had both the + cable and a smaller wire that went to it. Don't know where it orignated. All the numbers have worn off the ID plate. The orignal 301 has the two yelloqw wires coming out from behind the flywheel. Guess these could be charging system wires. I think I may have an engine, 341, that does not charge the starting battery?. As for the oil burner 301 - I don't have the skill or tools to do a rebuild so it sits on the bench?? Thanks again for your help. Dan

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Dutch
quote:
Originally posted by howlanddm
I think I may have an engine, 341, that does not charge the starting battery?.
Anything is possible. I never go by wire color alone. Too many times wire colors change from engine to engine, tractor to tractor, year to year, application to application. Use a VOM to determine where those wires go and if energized, if it is AC or DC. Be careful, one quick spark and you could damage whatever system you have.

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HubbardRA
Dan, Have you checked up under the dashboard? On the Homelite T13 that I got parts from, the voltage regulator was mounted under the dashboard behind the battery on the right side. I didn't know it was there until I went to clean up that dash for use on the AC712S project tractor. I was glad to find it since I didn't already have a good regulator. On the later models with a digital voltage regulator, it is mounted on the flat, vertical part of the engine shroud just above the starter bendix. That is near the connector in your picture. Yours doesn't have one.

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IronPony
Morning BLT, No, I have not taken the flywheel off. In to big a hurry to it in the tractor:(! I did think about it. As it stands right now - I think I am using the battery only to start the motor? Is that correct?? If so, then I only need to keep the battery charged up. The motor starts real easy and runs beautifully even at slow idle.:) Dan

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HubbardRA
Dan, If there is a coil mounted on the other side of that engine that is not visible in the picture, then you woll also be pulling power from the battery to run the ignition. Most of the Kohlers of this vintage used straight battery ignition and did not have magnetos. A good battery will last quite a while with only the current draw of an ignition, as long s you aren't running the lights or an electric PTO or Lift. You could also look up the wiring for a 716H. May be what you need. I've never owned one with an unregulated system, so I'm not sure how they hook up. The ones that I have had with the large, chassis mounted, requlators, had two AC wires coming out from behind the flywheel. I rigged one up by hooking these two wires to a bridge rectifier, which converted from AC to DC then hooked the two DC wires to a voltage regulator from a Starter-Generator. That system worked great.

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BLT
The unregulated system has two circuits, one DC roughly 3-5 amps and a 12V AC circuit roughly 300 watts to take care of headlights. They are generally different colored wires and the DC side will probably have a diode in it so it doesn't put a drain on the battery when the engine is not running. I downloaded the operators manusl and they show both for the 700 series, but don't tell you which tractor. File is a chunk, 26 Meg, a real snail for dial-ups. The AC-DC circuit is real common for the Murrays and the like. Dan you might be able to use your old circuit from the 12HP engine. I think the flywheels might be the same, but I'll let the Kohler savy people respond more about that.

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BLT
quote:
Originally posted by howlanddm
BLT, Thanks for the idea to swap the flywheels. NOW - can someone tell us if the two flywheels are interchangeable? I would be game to make this swap. Dan
I downloaded a parts manual for 710. 12, 16 tractor and Allis was notorious for wanting all the parts business. Anyways in the engine breakdown and all they tell you is if there is a difference in HP engines and they show only one flywheel for all three models. It also showed a regulator mounted somewhere on the tractor. Keep in mind this was only one parts list that I stumbled across, but most important is that the flywheels should interchange.

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BLT
quote:
Originally posted by howlanddm
BLT, Thanks for the idea to swap the flywheels. NOW - can someone tell us if the two flywheels are interchangeable? I would be game to make this swap. Dan
Dan I got this information off a puller site: Converting the old starter/generator charging system to the newer, alternator-equipped charging system: First off, all of the 10, 12, 14, 16 and 18hp single cylinder Kohler flywheels will interchange. The crankshaft tapers are the same. They're the same weight, too. The stator-type charging system will also work on a narrow frame Cub Cadet, but the frame must be widened to accept the larger diameter flywheel, bearing plate and shroud. The larger bearing plate will accept the stator/charging ring. And you'll need an electronic voltage regulator that's capable of handling the amount of amps that the stator produce. Stators come in 15, 25 and 30 amp output. But the 15 amp ones are the most common. To identify the amount of amps a stator produces, the 15 amp one have 18 posts, but only 16 are used (wrapped with wire) and has 2 wire leads (or connectors). The 25 amp stator have 18 posts, all of them are used and has 2 wire leads. The 30 amp stator have 12 posts, which are wrapped heavily with wire and have 4 wires leads. If you use a regulator made for a smaller [amperage] output, it'll burn up in no time. Remember, the higher the amperage of a charging system, the more power it'll draw from the engine (when under a severe load). For wiring diagrams of various Cub Cadets, see this web site: http://www.ihregistry.com/ref/wire.htm. http://members.aol.com/pullingtractor/flywheel.htm Bob Tiarks

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