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patrician12

I hate to complain

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patrician12
I hate to complain but.....why can't any American manufacturer make a comparable unit to the Kubota b7100 I just saw on ebay.It has a 3 pt hitch with a rear pto and only 17 hp.We can buy 25 hp Kohler and Briggs tractors but still no rear pto what gives???I could use a pto powered post hole digger in the worst way and this would be a blessing.Pto implements are pretty inexpensive and safe.

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Les
I feel your pain, but there has not been a tractor between 100 hp and a garden tractor manufactured in the United States since 1978, with the exception of the short lived White American series of 1986 thru 1990. If you want a Cat I three point with a regular 540 rpm PTO in a tractor less than 25 years old you have no choice. The compact diesels are all JAP, Korean, or Chinese. Always have been. Sure, you can buy one with an American name, but they are all JAP built. Even mighty Harley-Davidson, constantly waving the flag, has used JAP built carbs, front forks, and other parts since the 1970's. Harley's evolution engine was designed by Porsche, and Porsche even builds the engines for the new V-Rod.

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pacodiablo
quote:
Originally posted by Les
I feel your pain, but there has not been a tractor between 100 hp and a garden tractor manufactured in the United States since 1978, with the exception of the short lived White American series of 1986 thru 1990. If you want a Cat I three point with a regular 540 rpm PTO in a tractor less than 25 years old you have no choice. The compact diesels are all JAP, Korean, or Chinese. Always have been. Sure, you can buy one with an American name, but they are all JAP built. Even mighty Harley-Davidson, constantly waving the flag, has used JAP built carbs, front forks, and other parts since the 1970's. Harley's evolution engine was designed by Porsche, and Porsche even builds the engines for the new V-Rod.
Seems to be the case. JD's are Yanmar powered. Don't know about the New Hollands, Iseki possibly?

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Kent
I've now heard from two different dealers that next year's new replacement for the Legacy will also have a 4WD option. Dunno if it will be Category 0 or Category 1 rear PTO though... There's a dealer meeting going on this week (I think), where they'll get a chance to try next years models out. I'll let you know if I hear more....

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Les
Deere compacts are Yanmars painted green, New Hollands are Shiburuba, Case were Mitsubishi but I beleive they are discontinued, Agco and Massey are currently made by Iseki but used to be Hinomoto, Cub Cadet compact diesels are made by Mitsubishi. Some of the Bigger Deere tractors are made in Mannheim Germany. When Deere bought that plant years ago the workers went on strike when Deere tried to ban the "beer breaks"!!! Can you imagine workers in an American factory drinking beer on the job! (I mean, north of the Mason-Dixon line of course) I did forget to mention Speedex. I believe that they offer a 3 pt. hitch, dont know about the PTO. Speedex are all American, but I have never seen one nor heard of anybody having one. Thats great news that Simp. is offering a 540 PTO, but if they stay with the Cat 0, then you still can't use regular Cat I implements unless you can take off the pins and put the smaller diameter ones on.

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UCD
Manual in pdf form is listed on the simplicity site for legacy 2wd & 4wd models but is not available yet. The 540 pto option is available with manuals on the site. The rototiller for the legacy uses this pto. ENGLISH OPERATOR'S MANUAL - Legacy XL / 2900 Series 4WD/2WD Garden Tractor TP_100_3884_00_XL_SM.pdf

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Leroy
I believe Ray Stevens had a song about this issue. "Working for the Japanese" Anyone here think the unions had anything to do with the Manufacturing going over seas? I have known a good many people who have worked long for what they own. and many of them did not have unions. I grew up around the Auto Workers Unions. I know how that went. While the unions negotiated the companys out of America the Workers were numb to which walls were crumbling while the negotiations were going on. I dont think the workers were under paid nor do i think they were aware of what the unions were doing to them. and after the Companys finnaly got a foot on the ground in the cheaper labor counrtys here we are wishing we had Made In America Or Made in the U.S.A. on the label. Teamsters are still here and i am not current with those events, But we still have trucks so far. If we keep shipping the biz out of here we won't need very many trucks.

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Brent_Baumer
Leroy, I guess the American worker would have been better off with an 80+ hour work, no health insurance and no pension plans. Seriously, I believe Unions accomplished alot of good things - early on when there was something to fight for. Not so today. Now they oftentimes negotiate - and strike - for ridiculous reasons rather than being thankful for what they have. Brent

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Kent
IMO, after the period when unions obtained child-labor laws, time-and-a-half for overtime, and a few more key labor issues like that, they've probably done just as much harm as good, overall... driving prices up while quality fell.... Overall, I think they're pretty irrelevant now, except as political action committees and blocs of voters.... Leroy -- you left out the strongest and most dangerous union still thriving... the NEA.... But, this is way off track for the tractor forum! :)

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MPH
With due respect to your reminder this is off course for the tractor forum Kent, I must add, before union labor is linched for everything going overseas, let us think about OSHA, The EPA, Property tax on shop tools and the rest of goverment interfence in private bussiness. Bet most the new plants over the boarders don't have to worry about such 'details'. and the workin man is getting rich at 30 bucks a week while the product costs us the same, we just can't buy it with out new SERVICE industry jobs..MPH

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Leroy
Kent, I saw the request, Why can't American companys build a tractor? I agree it is a bit off, but in a way it is right on. Unions have ran roughshod over the workers (barring the NEA) That entity takes better care of the Tools (Teachers)than the Product(educating Children). President Regan was the only president in my life time that shook the foundations of the unions. I do know the company i worked for has a very high turn over rate over seas, because of repetitive issues and the quality is highly variable, because of training issues. Quality is up to the end user. And as you said Marty who is going to be able to buy it? I did search for the Legacy for the new model data sheet and couldn't find it. UCD, Do you have a URL, for the site with the PDF? Thanks for your effort Manard I appreciate it. Made in the USA by a Union Label has meant a lot.

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UCD
Leroy Do I have to post it again? I have posted it on this site at least 100 times. Goes to show how much some people READ here. I had to search them out other people can to. This site has all the Manuals you could ever want. This will require some time and effort on your part Use Part# 100,200,300, ETC. to 900.Then you will have to scroll thought the list to find the one you want. They all have discriptions. All of the repair manuals are here. Part# 100 OPERATOR'S MANUALS Part# 200 INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS,OPERATOR'S MANUALS Part# 300 DEALER SETUP INSTRUCTIONS Part# 400 PARTS MANUALS Part# 500 REPAIR MANUALS Part# 600 Safety Section,INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS Part# 700 Neutral Adjustment Guide,Electrical Information Manual, Product Service Bulletin Book Part# 800 Misc. Part# 900 Service Bulletin Book,Limited Warranty Simplicity Technical Publications Document Search Engine. http://www.simplicitytechpubs.com/v_techpubsearch.php

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darylcress
I work in the ag industry with tractors, (high horsepower)in particular. The US market is such a small percentage of the tractor market it does not make sense to build tractors here and export to the larger market. There are other reasons such as labor and material costs, but shipping is still the reason most larger tractors are built in Europe. In my opinion, the reason that most of the compact diesels are built outside the us is that is where they are utilized more in the field of agriculture. In most of southern Europe, the compact tractors we use for lawn/garden work are used as a farm tractor in orchards, vineyards, and small veg farms. Look into tractor history and Europe has a long history with small tractors, diesels in particular.

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DieselDon
Three years ago I bought the Legacy diesel with the 540 RPM rear PTO and the Cat 0 three point. This past weekend one of my co-workers took delivery on a new JD 2210 which is four wheel drive with a 23 HP three cylinder diesel, 540 rear PTO, Cat 1 three point and full hydraulics (for loader and/or front blade). He paid less today for his JD than I did for my Legacy three years ago![:0]:( I looked over one of these 2210s at the Barry County Fair a couple weeks ago and consider the JD to be a lot more tractor for the money. The only thing that Simplicity has over JD is the quality of cut in their mower decks and a smaller turn radius. Are unions responsible for this? I don't have a clue. But, if I were buying today I would be driving green tomorrow. If Simplicity is coming out with a four wheel drive "Legacy" it had better be competitive on price and features with the JD or it will fail miserably in sales. Maybe the only way Simplicity can compete with the JD 2210 is by importing one with orange paint on it! Even the JD X595 is more money for less tractor than the 2210.

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DieselDon
That may be true Les but I don't consider the bare 790 to be a comparable tractor. I believe the 790 is lacking power steering, hydrostatic drive and a mid PTO at that price point. The point I was making is that the Legacy is over-priced when compared to what JD has to offer in a comparable machine.

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Leroy
quote:
Originally posted by UCD
Leroy Do I have to post it again? I find it so much easier to include a link when ever i am attempting to make a point. To answer your question, no you do not need to. I have posted it on this site at least 100 times. Goes to show how much some people READ here. I had to search them out other people can to. This site has all the Manuals you could ever want. This will require some time and effort on your part Use Part# 100,200,300, ETC. to 900.Then you will have to scroll thought the list to find the one you want. They all have discriptions. All of the repair manuals are here. Part# 100 OPERATOR'S MANUALS Part# 200 INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS,OPERATOR'S MANUALS Part# 300 DEALER SETUP INSTRUCTIONS Part# 400 PARTS MANUALS Part# 500 REPAIR MANUALS Part# 600 Safety Section,INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS Part# 700 Neutral Adjustment Guide,Electrical Information Manual, Product Service Bulletin Book Part# 800 Misc. Part# 900 Service Bulletin Book,Limited Warranty Simplicity Technical Publications Document Search Engine. http://www.simplicitytechpubs.com/v_techpubsearch.php
My results = Query failed SELECT docid FROM parts where partno = 'ENGLISH OPERATOR'S MANUAL - Legacy XL / 2900 Series 4WD/2WD Garden Tractor TP_100_3884_00_XL_SM.pdf' I humbly request you forget i asked. I will wait for the new tractor to come out because i was unanble to find it on the Legacy sales site also.

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Les
quote:
Originally posted by DieselDon
That may be true Les but I don't consider the bare 790 to be a comparable tractor. I believe the 790 is lacking power steering, hydrostatic drive and a mid PTO at that price point. The point I was making is that the Legacy is over-priced when compared to what JD has to offer in a comparable machine.
Don't say anything bad about any John Deere! I am now a confirmed John Deere lover! Now that they got the deer jumping UP instead of down! That's what did it for me.

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