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BLT
I have reading a few posts about oil pressure gauges, tachometers and the like. My dash panel would look like this, voltmeter over ammeter as it gives you charging condition and battery state, cylinder head temperature gauge as this would be an indicator that your fins are becomming clogged, causing less air to flow and raising the head temperature. And finally a vacuum gauge connected to the crankcase. This would give you an indication on how hard you are making the engine work. From most of the engine curves that I have read, say that for best engine life you should not work the engine over 85% of its rated value. But trying to get crankcase info from engine manufacturers is like trying to breech Fort Knox. That would be the neatesd gauge, by glancing at it for instance if you were in the green OK to mow or whatever and if it got into the red it would indicate that 'Your working me to hard'. I suppose on the last it might give engines a longer chance to live and cut into the short block market, right?

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Guest
:D:D I guess your an instrument cluster man then Bob???? I would like to have a screen that came up with a suggestion for a different song for me to hum while mowing....4 hours of New York, New York is to much for anyone. At least the voices i hear are singing....:) Doug

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Kent
Bob, VDO makes a head temperature gauge whose sender simply goes on the end of the sparkplug... they're not ALL that expensive. The gauges: http://www.egauges.com/eg_typeI.asp?Type=Cylinder_Head_Temp&Cart= The senders: http://www.egauges.com/vdo_send.asp?Sender=Cyl_Head&Cart= Yes, without a pressurized lube system, it kind of changes the type of gauges you could use...

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BLT
quote:
Originally posted by DougM
:D:D I guess your an instrument cluster man then Bob???? I would like to have a screen that came up with a suggestion for a different song for me to hum while mowing....4 hours of New York, New York is to much for anyone. At least the voices i hear are singing....:) Doug
Doug I wasn't talking options, just basics.:D

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Leroy
I would expect a vac gauge would be dificult to read. The needle would be a blur maybe a delay read of high and low point motion detection meter on vacuume or a oil filled gauge. I think that a set of 3 cromel alumel leads set on the cylinder at 3 different points on the same line would give you a spred of values that would tell you if your cooking or frying. To read those you would have to have a thermocouple reader with an abc switch. Not cheap stuff . but then those are good ideas and i wonder if anyone has tried and succeed at monitoring their engines. Maybe some one could share pics of their dash or gauges where ever they are located to share how it works for them.

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Nick
quote:
Originally posted by DougM
:D:D I guess your an instrument cluster man then Bob???? I would like to have a screen that came up with a suggestion for a different song for me to hum while mowing....4 hours of New York, New York is to much for anyone. At least the voices i hear are singing....:) Doug
"Start spreading the news I'm leaving today I want to be a part of it, New York, New York These vagabond shoes Are longing to stray And make a brand new start of it New York, New York I want to wake up in the city that never sleeps To find I'm king of the hill, top of the heap These little town blues Are melting away I'll brand a brand new start of it In old New York If I can make it there I'll make it anywhere It's up to you, New York, New York. I want to wake up in the city that never sleeps To find I'm king of the hill, top of the heap These little town blues Are melting away I'll brand a brand new start of it In old New York If I can make it there I'll make it anywhere It's up to you, New York, New York! :D:D:D:D:D:D I know exactly voices you are talking about, I thought it was just me.[:0] it's not my voice in the song, it's the artist who sang it.

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Guest
Nick maybe if i changed the words around it wouldnt be so bad.. Start spreading the mulch...... Bob why not just take the hood off?:D

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Leroy
quote:
Originally posted by Kent
Bob, VDO makes a head temperature gauge whose sender simply goes on the end of the sparkplug... they're not ALL that expensive. http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/tractor/msg080007401346.html?7 Yes, without a pressurized lube system, it kind of changes the type of gauges you could use...
Kent this link tells me that the ford is probably not the one to buy for small landscaping jobs or sloped land. I did not see anything on temp gauges. LOL

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Nick
quote:
Originally posted by DougM
Nick maybe if i changed the words around it wouldnt be so bad.. Start spreading the mulch...... Bob why not just take the hood off?:D
That's one thing I am good at, making parodies of songs, or adding things in.

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Kent
Doh! Sorry Leroy, I fixed the links up above...

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Leroy
The end of the spark plug could be hotter than the head itself. It is under direct attack from compression and explosions .The insulator's Glass coating would hang on to thermals better than an aluminum head. The values i am sure are not that critical . I wonder if the gauge mfg'rs compensate for the variation? To get an accurate reading the thermocouple would need to be attached between the fins in the mass. In the testing of metals elgongation while under a load and heated, thermocouples are placed along the axis and necking occures. When it does the thermo properties are lost or viarialble swings cause doubt on validity as the couplers grip to the standard is reduced due to necking. The heat rises and the top thermocouple is usually the hottest. but the oven is packed with k wool and the temp is like 1500 to 2000 degress. this test is called elevated creep or elevated stress rupture, depending on if the test was to failure or to time. I think i fell off the rail here. lol I know we are talking tractors here. avaition gauges and connectors would certainly be accurate. The cost would be pretty high i excpect. Any A&E guys out there?

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MoAC610
My gauge is my ears I guess if you have been around the engines long enough you can hear when you stressing them out. I can do this for one cyclinder gas engines to twelve cyclinder diesels. I used to stand outside the dyno room when running the big boys and I could figure out at what percentage of the rated max load the engine was running and then look at gauges and I was usually very close. The dyno tech said it was weird how I could do that, One problem with that Idea the constant ringing gets annoying. LOL So much for hearing Conservation. Any retired Marines out there?

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Kent
Leroy, VDO used to offer a temp sensor that was designed to go between the head fins, but I don't see it listed on that one site I linked. When you tightened the nut, it expanded to fit snugly between the fins. I've used both on VWs to monitor the infamous #3 cylinder, with 600 degree gauges, but ended up going to the spark plug type, since you could easily move it from car to car. If memory serves me, you'd get maybe a 25 degree variation between the two. But, I didn't consider that significant, since what you really monitor is the change from "normal operating temperature" anyway. You really had to watch the temp when you were doing high performance modifications such as running high-lift cams, ported heads, oversize pistons, increasing the compression ratio from about 7:1 to 9:1 or 9.5:1 (anything over that caused real problems with heat and spark knock for street use), etc.

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thedaddycat
I have to agree with some of the comments above. After using the equipment(any equipment) for a while you'll be able to judge "relative" load against "Full" load. I've done it with everything from single digit HP engines all the way up to 300,000 #/hr. boilers, turbines, compressors, generators, etc... If you're mowing too hard and can tell you're overloading the engine, slow down a little.... LOL

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SmilinSam
Thanks for the posting here BLT, I was wondering what the Vacuum gauge on my Wheel Horse 520 was supposed to be for. Its measuring the Vacuum on a 20hp Onan Performer. The gauge reads in the Green up to 75%. Red theron after.

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BLT
quote:
Originally posted by SmilinSam
Thanks for the posting here BLT, I was wondering what the Vacuum gauge on my Wheel Horse 520 was supposed to be for. Its measuring the Vacuum on a 20hp Onan Performer. The gauge reads in the Green up to 75%. Red theron after.
Sam, we were an Onan distributor 20 some years ago as they were trying to make an effort to get into the liquid cooled Diesel engine small horsepower market. But with that came the air cooled line also. To qualify an aprroved application, engine vacuum readings were a MUST. It was done by crankcase or carb vacuum. If you exceeded limits , NO GO!!! I am curiuos to what your gauge reads. Can you follow the line down and post it? Just curious. I think this is the way all the air cooled guys gauge the application.

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SmilinSam
quote:
Originally posted by BLT
quote:
Originally posted by SmilinSam
Thanks for the posting here BLT, I was wondering what the Vacuum gauge on my Wheel Horse 520 was supposed to be for. Its measuring the Vacuum on a 20hp Onan Performer. The gauge reads in the Green up to 75%. Red theron after.
Sam, we were an Onan distributor 20 some years ago as they were trying to make an effort to get into the liquid cooled Diesel engine small horsepower market. But with that came the air cooled line also. To qualify an aprroved application, engine vacuum readings were a MUST. It was done by crankcase or carb vacuum. If you exceeded limits , NO GO!!! I am curiuos to what your gauge reads. Can you follow the line down and post it? Just curious. I think this is the way all the air cooled guys gauge the application.
Bob, can you elaborate on following the line down? Not sure I follow what you want, of course I should have fell asleep an hour ago too.... If you can get me on the same page as you I'll be happy to do it..

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BLT
Sam where does the vacuum gauge line hose go to, sorry on not being specific.

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SmilinSam
The gauge is connected via a 1/4" fuel line type hose to a port on the intake manifold about 2" to the left of the Carb.

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thedaddycat
Where's the line "A Number One"?

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BLT
quote:
Originally posted by SmilinSam
The gauge is connected via a 1/4" fuel line type hose to a port on the intake manifold about 2" to the left of the Carb.
Thanks Sam. Now that makes more sense. I was getting crankcase pressure crossed with carb vacuum for engine performance.

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Kent
I'm not sure I understand, Bob. Ideally, with good piston rings, shouldn't the crankcase only have a very, very slight vacuum -- if any. With worn rings, blowby increases, and "pressurizes" the crankcase unless it's vented.... In either case, a reading close to "zero" (actually external barometric pressure) would be the ideal, wouldn't it...

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a7117puller
what ever happened to basics? and run it by ear?

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BLT
quote:
Originally posted by Kent
I'm not sure I understand, Bob. Ideally, with good piston rings, shouldn't the crankcase only have a very, very slight vacuum -- if any. With worn rings, blowby increases, and "pressurizes" the crankcase unless it's vented.... In either case, a reading close to "zero" (actually external barometric pressure) would be the ideal, wouldn't it...
Kent I think being close to zero means the engine is putting all out. Onan wanted a value higher then that. Say for instance at idle closed throttle plate your vacuum was 27-30 inches water column. For maximum engine life a value of 6-7 inches WC would insure an engine get that. 7117, if people really used their ear, Briggs and Stratton would not be are big as they are now. Just imagine 8" tall grass, a 3-1/2 HP engine trying to swing a 21" blade and can barely do it. Combine that with the big box stores selling mowers in the $125.00 range, the walk behind mower became a throw away item.

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Leroy
quote:
Originally posted by BLT
quote:
Originally posted by Kent
In either case, a reading close to "zero" (actually external barometric pressure) would be the ideal, wouldn't it...
7117, if people really used their ear, Briggs and Stratton would not be are big as they are now. Just imagine 8" tall grass, a 3-1/2 HP engine trying to swing a 21" blade and can barely do it. Combine that with the big box stores selling mowers in the $125.00 range, the walk behind mower became a throw away item.
Whats the relationship to the 7117? If it was equipped it may have lasted longer?

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