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torinwalker

Turf vs AG/Single vs Dual Showdown

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torinwalker
At some point in every Simplicity/AC owner's life one is faced with the challenge of how to create more traction. Does one chew up the lawn with AG tires, or use turf tires with extra weight? I am now faced with that very dilemma. After purchasing a mighty-nice plow blade for the Landlord, I immediately tried a little tractor push test - how many 20-lb cobblestones can I shove across the lawn before I can shove no more?? The answer was suprisingly low - not because of the tractor's lack of power or torque, but because of the pathetic traction of the Goodyear Terra-Tire turf tires on soft earth and grass. Well, OK, I drove the tractor into a pile of, say, 50 stones :o), but honestly... I expected a better fight. Should I buy AG tires? Should I stick with the turf? Frankly, I don't care all that much for the lawn. The grass will always grow back. I want duals too, for stability on my topsy-turvy land. Four AG tires and dual adapters are a Pretty Hard find these days. Perhaps I should weigh down the tractor? How much weight can I throw on it without worrying about breaking the poor mule? These are the questions, my wise fellow friends, that I would like to discuss with you. Torin...

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darylcress
I have narrow (6") bar tires on my B10 and wide (10.5") bar tires on my 716H. I will never go back to turf. I do not really notice it tearing up the yard unless it is really wet. Turf will damage then because it is usually spinning. I have some fairly steep ditches to mow and the bar tires make all the difference. I usually do not mow up and down, but along the contour. With the bar tires the tractors always have traction and there is no sliding around or slipping. With the turf tires, the up side tire would always spin out. Also, when trying to go up a hill, the tractor will crawl right up now and there is no need to make a run for it. As far as dual bar tires, you could have some lawn tear with them because one of the tires will have to slide. I would also think it would be hard on the drivetrain. I have never been unsatisfied with the traction of either of my tractors with single bar. Stability is an issue that I have not had to deal with much. I have not plowed with either of mine (have larger tractor), but have done a LOT of pushing with the blade. Hope this helps. Good luck and enjoy the tractor.

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mbrook
Torin, hear is how I see it. If you put duals on your tractor the weight of the tractor will be distributed even more, causing even less traction yet more stability. If you put weight on it you may find the tires won't have the traction. What you may want to do is look for a set of narrow ag tires, then fill them or add weights. If you have tire chains available you could probably get by with that and some weights.Just some of my thoughts. Mark

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torinwalker
Traction vs Stability. That is why it is difficult to decide on what to do. It sounds to me that AG tires are my best bet, and I should forget turf altogether. I need the stability however, and I think that dual thin AGs spaced reasonably far apart would give me stability while not distributing the weight over too large of an area. In other words: Single Turf - low traction, low stability, tears due to spinning Double Turf - low traction, highest stability, tears due to spinning Single Thick AG - high traction, low stability, no tearing Single Thin AG - higher traction, very low stability, no tearing Dual Thick AG - medium traction, higher stability, no tearing Dual Thin AG - high traction, high stability, no tearing Sound about right?

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Dutch
Sounds like you either need at least three tractors set up for turf, stability and traction, or be willing to do a lot of switching tires, weights, and implements. I started with one light tractor with soft wide tires for mowing grass, then ........

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rokon2813
Torrin: to start with did you try the posi traction trick? That will help. The tires you saw on my tractor are Goodyears 23 x 8.50 x 12 not loaded with 35 pounds of wheel weight on each side. It gets enough traction to push a full blade of dirt, half full blade of gravel or with a pulling sled hooked 13" off the ground to stall the engine in second gear. I would think for a little more stability you could find a set of rims with a "deeper dish" or more offset to make your wheel stance a little wider by a few inches and still run single wheels. Also at one time that tractor had turf tires with chains and the same wheel weights and did nearly as well. The main reason I took the chains off was they were too close to the mower deck when it was on.

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lsenus
I've got 21x10x10 AG tires on my 6116. No problem with the health of the grass. It doesn't chew up the soil like one would think, unless it's very soft from rain. But then even turfs would do that. I found turf tires would spin when making really tight turns around trees and plantings. Not so with the AGs.

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torinwalker
Actually, Rokon, seeing the AGs on your tractor just made me want a pair even more. THANKS A LOT. ;-) They looked pretty good, those 8.5's. They're not easy to find though, are they? Torin...

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KenK
If your going to be pushing heavy loads,weight will be needed on the rear regardless of turf tires or bar tires.When pushing heavy loads even bar tires spin.I know a guy with a B-10,turf tires,and a loader.He has about 250#s of weight in a box on back,and he weighs about 320#s.No chains on the tractor and no tire spinning problems.Iv'e seen him move mountains of dirt.

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rokon2813
No Torrin not real easy to find used but new can still be purchased in a few brands. You might find used in an ATV tire which someone here uses. I think its Dutch who has a set mounted.

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Dutch
Torin, be aware that all AG bar lug tires are not created equal. Do a SEARCH for Kent’s post regarding Cheng Shin and other tires. I have a set of 23-8.50x12 Cheng Shin lugs on a 7010 and I am quite pleased with the traction. I had a set of Goodyear and a set of Carlisle lugs, but those couldn’t compare. [img]/club2/attach/dutch/7010.jpg[/img] I have recently installed 25-10.50x12 Swamp Witch on a 712. In theory they should work fine, but I haven’t tested them yet. [img]/club2/attach/dutch/1st-run-1.jpg[/img] [img]/club2/attach/dutch/trailer-hitch.jpg[/img]

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torinwalker
Good lord... I dreamt one of those things was chasing me. What is the model number of the Cheng Shins you have on your 7010? I've found a few offshore dealers and suppliers, but I need a specific tire model otherwise they try to pawn off some other tire brand on me. One guy said specifically, "It doesn't matter whether it's Cheng Shin or some other off-shore brand, it's the lugs that make the difference. The lugs made offshore are different than those of tires manufactured in the United States. He said, and I quote, "The US can't make the same types of lugs." Torin...

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torinwalker
Just spoke to another gentlemen, a dealer for Goodyear tires, and he suggested (as a possible alternative to lugged AG tires) using Urethane fill, which may add up to 65lbs to each tire. That would certainly make a big difference, but I'm not so sure that would help if I'm landscaping and running around in a lot of mud or dirt. Torin...

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Dutch
Torin, call Jim Dalton at Tucker Tires > http://www.tuckertire.com/ Explain what you want to do, pick Jim's brain, and consider his advice. Last time I spoke with Jim, he still had Cheng Shin tires at his Memphis store.

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HubbardRA
Torin, What I would suggest is a set of 23x10.5x12 Ag tires. Then I would make adapters and use the existing turf tires and wheels for the stability. Try making the rings as suggested, then use all thread rod. On the inside wheels use a nut on each side of the wheel to lock the rod. This way the outer wheel and ring can be removed by only removing the outer nuts. The rods will stay with the inner wheels. East to remove and replace this way. I have also built the flange and tube type dual adapters. I usually remove the outer wheels but leave the spacers for weight. That way I can easily replace the outer wheels if I need to. I made a set of these without a lathe by drawing the patterns on the computer, then cutting them out and marking on the metal, then aligning, sawing, drilling, and grinding from these marks. A pipe cutter will produce a square cut on a pipe.

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RickS
Country, If I remember Dutch was asked the same question about the Swamp Witch tire in an earlier post. He was showing off the tractor he pictured above. The Swamp Witch tires are ATV tires. So I would think you could pick them up an any place that sells ATVs. Rick........

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torinwalker
Urethane, or properly, polyurethane, can be any of various resins, widely varying in flexibility, used in tough chemical-resistant coatings, adhesives, and foams. The liquid is injected into tires to form a puncture resistant, high density (high weight) ballast to increase traction and tire durability. According to the gentleman I spoke to, urethane costs approximately $2.00CAD/$1.42US per pound, and on a small set of 23x8.5-12's, one can expect a 60lb increase per tire. That's $240CAD for 120lbs worth of ballast. I suppose if you add together the convenience of tire resistance and not having to strap or bolt anything onto the tractor (freeing it up for implements), it might be worth the money. I was out reshaping my dirt driveway where it turns off the street (the water runoff etched a small corridor that traverses the entrance on an angle, making it a very bumpy ride in and out) and I got caught a few times and had to jump up and down on the tractor to un-stick it from the dirt. Boy, I sure could use something to fix this traction problem of mine...

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Kent
Dutch, I'm glad to see you confirm my opinion of the Chen Shens. They seem to have twice the traction of my Power Master lugs, but you have to be careful if they start spinning -- they'll dig a hole you can't get out of REAL quick... Kent

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Nubian
quote:
Originally posted by Nubian
I wish I heard of Cheng Shin before I bought my Power Master lugs.But I'll say this for my Power Master's they are 6-ply and I feel pretty comfy putting any kind of weight on them! Eddy

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