Brent_Baumer Posted September 2, 2003 Posted September 2, 2003 I did not even go into the house when I got home from work. Just immediately removed the $6 Kohler "can" from the 716H and installed the muffler with the recommended 3 discs. Fired her up. Heart dropped. Can't tell much difference from the 'Trapp and the can. Bleep! This sucks. Removed one of the discs. Instructions say using one less disc will reduce sound but may rob power. Fired her up again, maybe slightly quieter but not sure. Got out the sound meter. Measured 91.5dB while sitting on the machine and holding the meter in front of my face. Shut her down. Hopped on the 716-6 speed with OEM muffler. Fired it up and measured 98.9dB from the same position. Well, guess there claims of 4 to 6dB reduction are true, but was expecting better results. Guess I won't be tossing the ear muffs any time soon. Recommendation: Save your money. This ain't worth $140. Makes very little difference. I was hoping my tractor would be as quiet as my Dad's JD 210. Sorry, not even close SuperTrapp. Brent [img]http://www.simpletractors.com/club2/uploaded/Brent_Baumer/trap1.jpg[/img]
skot71 Posted September 2, 2003 Posted September 2, 2003 Huh, so that explains the scream I heard to the south of me!
Brent_Baumer Posted September 2, 2003 Author Posted September 2, 2003 Scott, The screams you heard from the south were probably not mine. I doubt my cursing could be heard over the noise of the exhaust. The sound level of these tractors is one of the few complaints I have. I have tried new OEM mufflers, IH cubs stacks and now this. Nothing helps. Guess my next move will be a JD muffler if I can figure out a way to install one. Brent
skot71 Posted September 2, 2003 Posted September 2, 2003 Must've been your neighbors screaming about the exhaust volume.
gregc Posted September 2, 2003 Posted September 2, 2003 Kind of makes you wonder what SuperTrapp really means.
Guest Posted September 2, 2003 Posted September 2, 2003 Wow ... I just signed in hoping to find some info on a Super Trapp for my 716! Must be my lucky day ... guess I'll save my money! Any other suggestions for replacing the Nelson can on my Kohler?
Brent_Baumer Posted September 2, 2003 Author Posted September 2, 2003 Uh, djo7, never mind that man behind the curtain, er uh the testimony above. The SuperTrapp works great and I happen to have one for sale that is like new. It is well worth my $135 asking price if you want to buy it, shipping included. That'll save you $5 and you won't have to wait 2 months like I did. Brent
Guest Posted September 2, 2003 Posted September 2, 2003 I assume for $135 I get your ear muffs too??!! Dan
Kent Posted September 2, 2003 Posted September 2, 2003 Brent, Thanks for sharing that expensive "lesson learned" with the rest of us...
KenK Posted September 2, 2003 Posted September 2, 2003 I had a 2010 once that was really quiet.The muffler looked like one off of a allis B farm tractor.It was about 3"s across and about 20"s long.It was piped out and around the front of the grill.I couldn't believe how quiet it was.The only drawback I could see was that it didn't look very good.In that 716 of yours you could probably hide it under the hood.
BigSix Posted September 2, 2003 Posted September 2, 2003 Brent: Long time, buddy--I see you're still your old innovative self. As Kent says, thanks for sharing an expensive lesson. Like you, I feel that quote:The sound level of these tractors is one of the few complaints I have. Headphones in the hot summer are not that comfortable, but I wear 'em religiously, as I've seen the damage suffered by those that don't. I remember one of the tractor pullers, I believe, that took a cycle exhaust and (I thought) experienced significant noise reduction. That might be an inexpensive next step. Kudos to you for actually verifying your findings w/ a dba meter. Did you also measure the cub stack's output? I thought I read here that they made a big noise reduction, but not so, huh? Could you elaborate on your cub stack findings, and exact piece you used, where sourced, etc....? I keep thinking about trying a small car's muffler, if a suitably compact one could be found and mounted. Thanks again, for the effort, pics and dba verification! Peter
Brent_Baumer Posted September 2, 2003 Author Posted September 2, 2003 Peter, The cub stack was an IH-1 muffler for the Farmall Cub. I bought it from Quality Farm and Fleet when they were still in business here. Orchelns and TSC have them. I did not verify the sound level with measurement, it does sound a lot different but not a bit quieter. I looked at all the small car mufflers that Advance Auto carries this spring (the counter guy was surprisingly helpful and guided my search) and could not find any that were less than monstrous in comparison to a small engine muffler. Also, would have needed at least 2, maybe more reducers to mate to the 1" or 1 1/4" small engine exhaust pipe size. Brent
dogboy Posted September 2, 2003 Posted September 2, 2003 I don't have a "db" meter, but i tried thedaddycat's suggestion, i kept the stock muffler,rolled up a piece of 1/4 in. gal. wire mesh-about 6x8in.-stuffed that in the pipe and screwed the muffler back on-- big difference,the original post is on page 9.all i can say is no more complaints
thedaddycat Posted September 2, 2003 Posted September 2, 2003 Pay no attention to that man behind the keyboard......
JonetteP Posted September 2, 2003 Posted September 2, 2003 It is a little bigger, but I would use the IMCO CM-43 muffler. They work great. They are heavily packed, take a little more room, but are very effective. They seem to take out the bark. Neal
gretsch Posted September 2, 2003 Posted September 2, 2003 I'm sorry you had to spend that much money and time to test it. Thanks for sharing your findings so some of the rest of us won't be curious enough to try out a Supertrapp.
HTews Posted September 2, 2003 Posted September 2, 2003 I can maybe add a little insight into the muffler delema... There are many things that go into design of a muffler. In the case of small engine mufflers there was not a certian dB level that was requried to be met by the muffler manufacturer. Yes there was an over all level that Simplicity/Allis wanted the "overall sound" of the Tractor to be. But this was not regulated. These standard are changing as we speak much of which is driven by the Europeans. On many of the new units( no mater what brand name) you will notice that the mower decks are getting to be the main sorce of noise. Back to the tractors that are near and dear to our hearts... to quiet these units down you can do as thedaddycat did with the steel wool. this can also be done with a piece of screen in the outlet. But to really quiet them down you need volume in the muffler with some baffling. This was not really an option ( no room or you would have a large can hanging out the side of the tractor. the other thing you could do is to is to add a stack to the outlet and point it in a safe direct (don't want to set the grass or anything else on fire) away from the operator. packing inside the muffler works well to. I'm not sure if I have help or touched on a subject that was discussed earlier, but maybe this will give you inventers some idea's.
rokon2813 Posted September 2, 2003 Posted September 2, 2003 I dont have a meter so I dont know the specific results but I find them much quieter with the stock mufflers turned and pointed toward the ground in front of the front tire. They may not be much different to bystanders but to the driver it makes a big difference. Its free to do but for a little time so maybe you could do that test with the meter in the same location for us....????
sask Posted September 3, 2003 Posted September 3, 2003 My father-in-law has one of the original cubs with a Kohler K181, and a Case with a Kohler K321. Both of them are the quietest old garden tractors I have ever not heard. They both have a muffler that looks exactly like the one posted below that is made for the Kohler K-series engines (available from Jacks Small Engines, and probably other places, for about $30.00). I have yet to try one myself, so this isn't an endorsement. But his tractor are awfully quiet. Pat [img]http://www.jackssmallengines.com/Graphics/engineparts/105296.jpg[/img]
IronPony Posted September 3, 2003 Posted September 3, 2003 When changing from the stock K301 engine to a K341 engine, I bought a complete OEM exhaust system with the nelson muffler to replace the rusted old system. My only comparison is between this and my 95 model MTD 16 horse B&S IC engined tractor(lawn mower LOL). My AC712(16)S is much quieter. I have to sound protectors when mowing with the MTD. I actually get off that mower with a ringing in my ears if I don't. The exhaust system is original and in a good state of repair. I can talk to people with the engine running on my allis and I can hear without ringing when I finish mowing with it. I still wear my muffs, they are radio equipped,:)but, no longer for noise. Dan P.S. The cost of the whole exhause from engine to tailpipe with all the hangers and clamps was $140. And - it is all original and looks great.
torinwalker Posted September 3, 2003 Posted September 3, 2003 Have you guys considered the frequency of the exhaust? Did you know that the lower the frequency, the more difficult it is to direct? I would like to propose that if somehow we were able to increase the frequency of the sound pressure developed from the exhaust (many little Hondas around here have modified exhausts to make them sound "zipppier") one might have a better chance directing it into the air and thus reducing the sound pressure level all around. First of all, check out this: http://www.kettering.edu/~drussell/Demos/BaffledPiston/BaffledPiston.html Then consider changing the exhaust to something that might take the existing low frequency oscillations and create many harmonics through baffling, geometry, whatever. The lower frequencies are converted to higher harmonics and emitted as a high-frequency sound. Then, with an appropriate aperture directed UP into the air, you could direct considerably more of the sound pressure into a 90 degree cone directly UP and into the sky). I have a Landlord 101 with a can muffler; the exhaust hole is directed toward the ground (which also causes the left wheel to accumulate with soot if the engine isn't tuned properly.) I too have the noise problem, but directing it up and out of the way won't help unless I increase the frequency as well. It might, but I don't know how much. Anyone have an idea what the spectrum of a 10HP B&S or Kohler looks like over the range from idle to full power? I'm not sure if my Spec Analyzer will cover 10Hz - 20kHz. It might only go as low as 100kHz, perhaps not even that. Torin...
MN_FISH Posted September 3, 2003 Posted September 3, 2003 Dan What kind of muffs <radio equipped> do you use? Do they have good reception up here? AM & FM? All I need is AM 790 KFGO & FM for Fosston. I always wear muffs when mowing. Hard of hearing the way it is.
HTews Posted September 3, 2003 Posted September 3, 2003 Torin, You are correct if you can remove the low frequency you will change the overall sound quality and overall sound level of the muffler. This can be done with volume, backpresure and baffling. You are not technicaly increasing the frequency you are just removing or lowering the unwanted frequencys.
torinwalker Posted September 3, 2003 Posted September 3, 2003 Thank you. But more to the point, the higher the frequency, the more you can *direct it away from where it is unwanted.* Provided that the lower frequencies are attentuated, pointing the muffler straight up would reduce the noise directed to neighbours et all substantially. It's a shame I don't have a trailer. I have a HUGE scrapyard just minutes from my house. I could have hauled the tractor over and tried on a whole bunch of mufflers until I found the perfectly sized/asthetically appealing muffler. Do any of the new replacement mufflers have better luck quieting these ancient engines? My 6HP (B&S) lawnmower is actually quite appealing to the ear. It's still loud, but there is no harsh popping. It's almost as if the higher frequencies were attenuated. Torin...
DaleC Posted September 3, 2003 Posted September 3, 2003 Sound control is a function of breaking up the sound waves. Walker has even experimented with a sound transmitter (fancy for speaker) that is directed back into the exhaust inorder to silence or breakup the soundwaves. (This was at the request of the auto industry) Enough with the technical. I put the Stanley AC-1 from TSC on my 12 horse briggs. It is much quiter than with the $6 kohler muf. The exhaust is above my face. The sound is directed up. I put a rain cap on it and then took it off because the BELCH of exhaust the big single cylinder put out made a POP as it hit the cap. $16? and it works for me. I have since cut off a bout 2 inches of the inlet pipe moved the muffler on down the exhaust pipe so it is not so high but still the top is just above my eyes when I set on the B-12.
Recommended Posts