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EZDUZIT

GOOFED UP WIRING.!!HELP PLEASE

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EZDUZIT
I have found and installed a 12hp briggs in my 1970 simplicity 3212V.I marked all of the electrical wires as I removed the old engine.Somewhere I have made a mistake(as usual)The engine cranks and has spark to the spark plug but wont start.The engine I am putting in came out of an A C it is a 12 hp # 300421 0127 01 6705261.I dont know what year A C it came out of,but it is obvious to me that I have an engine with different wiring then what I have in the tractor itself.I did use the voltage regulator that came with the latest engine.I do know that in the late 1960s and early 1970s that they changed a lot of the ways that they wired these machines. I guess my question is this(please dont laugh)Is there a kinda basic wiring pattern I can use ?? The engine is getting fuel and has the original starter switch in the tractor.I know nothing about timing or that,like I said I am getting spark to the plug but not even a "cough" or "hint" of igniting.I cant seem to find that place where I can get the year of this motor from either.It does have an A C sticker on one of the covers and I am told it was definetly out of an A C not a Simplicity.I would think(that I dont do well)that I have to wire this motor as the machine that it came out of.The TRACTOR has a mfg# 990570 serial# 003129 and the original code for the original engine was 7002101 same type and trim of this motor.Oh yes this motor had on one of the alternator poles a 1/2 of a fuse holder that the one coming out didnt have.I do have a fuse up behind the fuel tank.I have told you all I can.I am lost!!(as usual) If someone can help,I should say that I cannot read electrical schematics(or however you spell it) I humble myself to you guys once more.

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UCD
It has got fuel in the tank but is it getting fuel to the carb and into the cylinder. Close the chock and hold your the palm of your hand over the end of the carb while cranking it. Is there a suction on your hand? Or take a Windex spray bottle with a little gas in it and spray a little into the carb while cranking it over. If you don't want to do that remove the spark plug and pour about a table spoon full of gas in to the plug hole replace the plug and plug wire and crank it over.

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Salthart
Something to remember on those older engines.. As far as running is concerned, only the wire that goes to the point cover matters. If you remove that wire, the engine ignition is "removed from the tractor. No need and do that on this one. If you have fire, the trouble is not your wiring. ( At least as far as the engine running goes ) Good luck. Salthart

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PatRarick
The engine code (serial number), 6705261, states that the engine is a 1967 model. As Salthart stated, only the wire to the points matters. It goes to the ignition switch. It is grounded when the switch is off. AT NO TIME should there be power in that wire. The engine will run with that wire removed, but you won't be able to shut it off without grounding either the points or the spark plug. The only wiring difference there would be, would be for the starter. Older tractors had a push button starter while later ones had a relay and key start. If you have spark and the engine is cranking, you should have it wired correctly. You probably have a fuel problem and that has been addressed by UCD. Pat

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thedaddycat
To add a little to Pat's comments for you, the engine Code has the year of manufacture as the first two digits, month as second two, day as third two, and I believe assembly line as the last digit(though I'm not positive about the last one).

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EZDUZIT
HEY!! Its me again.I tried all of thee above to no avail.I just took out the spark plug hooked up the plug wire,held the end of the plug near a grounding bolt ,or rather a filed clean head bolt.No spark to the bolt!!! Tried several new plugs,and several old plugs same thing.So, when plug is in the head hole Im getting spark to the plug,but not strong enough to go through ANY plug.I am totaly lost !!!(again)I also reinstalled the battery ground cable to alternator mounting bracket after filing that down clean also.3 wires come off the voltage regulator Left one goes to same post on alternator where selonid is hooked to,center one goes to the other post on altrnator,right side goes to larger wire that goes to starter switch through the harness.THERE are NO other wires hooked to alternator or voltage regulator.There are 2 wires on the selonoid 1 on the hot side where battery hot wire is going into harness back to switch and another on the small post also going back to the swiitch. Should I put my old alternator and regulator on this motor???I am totaly confused at this point.Thanks to you all that responded,but none of that worked.Someone please help.

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SmilinSam
Alternator/Regulator has nothing to do with spark. No spark means you have a problem in the A) Plug, B) magneto coil(atop the flywheel),C) Ignition switch, D) Points and condensor, or E)wiring connections Pull the plug and hold it directly against the block and see if you have a blue or red spark or no sparh between the gap on the plug. Blue is what you want. Red is weak. No spark is self explanatory. If the spark is there but weak, I would suggest looking into the condition of the points, which should be done anyhow. Points should be flat on both pieces and smoothe. No beveled edges and no pitts.

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dlcentral
If you have spark, check compression,without that it wont even pop!If comp is good, try squirting a LITTLE carb cleaner in plug hole,re-install plug, then crank it,sometimes these old motors need a little''wake-up''call!,,

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PatRarick
For ignition, as stated before, the only wire of the tractor harness that matters, is the one to the points. With that wire disconnected, you have the full ignition potential of the engine. None of the other components, generator, solenoid, voltage regulator, or battery, have anything at all to do with the ignition (spark). You can take the engine out of the tractor, set it on the floor, use a rope on the starter pulley and you will have full spark potential. That being said, first disconnect the ignition switch wire to the points. That completely isolates the ignition from the tractor. If you have spark, there is a problem with the switch or wire between the engine and the switch. If you have no spark, follow Sam and Dan's advice. Clean and regap the points. In addition, follow the wire that runs between the points and the blower housing to check for any sign that this wire may be broken or have the insulation worn off so that it grounds to the block. Keep in mind that the points are normally open. They close and open at near top dead center on the compression stroke only. After you have gapped the points, turn the engine over by hand, for two full revolutions, to be sure that you haven't set the points at the point of where they should be closed. You will be able to see them open and close. Check for spark. If there is no spark, replace the points and condenser. If you still have no spark, the problem lies in the ignition armature (coil). You will have to remove the engine to replace the armature, as it is under the blower housing. Pat

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PeteNM
Great info from everyone. One thing I haven't seen mentioned and have had happen several times with B&S and Onan engines. If it comes down to a possible bad coil, try sanding the coil and the magnet on the flywheel so both are bright. If they are rusty (from sitting ?)it may be the problem and save buying a coil. My $.05 PeteNM

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Salthart
EZ, The points on this engine are fed power from the magneto, Not from the battery like Kohlers so the points ( to me at least ) are far less forgiving about having water, oil or corrosion on the contacts. Give this a try.. Get a flashlight and get down close to the points and open them enough to see the faces of the contacts. If you see anything other than an almost mirror finish, Find an emery nail file, incert it between the points and sand until you do have clean metal. After filing, rotate the crankshaft until the points close. Take a dollar bill, open the points by hand, put in the corner of the dollar and let the points close on it.. Drag the bill out and look at it. If you see a dirty track repete with another corner until it comes out clean. ( Other paper will work but money don't leave "Lint" behind and it pulls any oil off nicely ) Hope this helps Salt

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EZDUZIT
SUCCESS !!!! Thank You all. I had to learn the hard way again!!All it took was a new set of points and condensor.I have a hard time bending over and seeing due to 3 plates in my neck,but I actualy got it done.It would have been so much easier on the bench.I need to readjust this carb,can someone send me to that place ??I actualy got it to run,and chug for a few minutes and then die on 6 or 7 occaisions then no spark again,finaly I broke down and got the points and condensor,by the way,the set out here cost me $29.81 with 6% tax.I think the last set I bought in the 1960s for my 49 chevy was under $5.00!! Again Thank You All....

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