rjgoth Posted October 28, 2003 Posted October 28, 2003 I have a question regarding quieting down my Landlord with a 10 hp Briggs engine. I have a stock muffler on it and it is quite loud, and I would like to quiet this engine down. I have seen the use of a stack style muffler like a full size tractor and heard that they work quite well, I am reluctant to use one of this type since I need to get in around trees with low hanging branches. I did see that Briggs and Stratton has a "lo-tone muffler" and it sells for around $90.00. I am curious if any other member have tried this muffler and if you did how did it work? They are for sale from Jacks --http://www.jackssmallengines.com/bQuietmuf_index.html Thanks for your help Ryan
PatRarick Posted October 28, 2003 Posted October 28, 2003 After using the lo-tone mufflers in several different applications, my personal opinion is that they are not worth the additional cost. The do soften the bark of the governer opening up, and they do curb the sharper sounds, but I don't think there is a significant reduction in noise. Again, this is only my opinion. Pat
BigSix Posted October 28, 2003 Posted October 28, 2003 If I get as far a getting a stack from a Farmall Cub, as I believe has been tried, I will do Daddycat's screen baffle--unless, of course, I find a motorcycle exhaust which looks like a stack. However, to all the HVAC and power plant guys here: what type of equipment might have condensor coils with like a 1" I.D.? I'm envisioning something that looks like the element on an electric stove, i.e., it spirals into the center, or out from the center, but unlike the heating element, this would be a hollow tube. It could be like the diameter of a large dinner plate, we could stuff it with screen, and with some elbows, even stick a short, stock "can" muffler on it after the spiral. The idea is we'd have the length of a stack, plus stock can muffler, but it would all be nice and compact, in front of the grill, thereby addressing Ryan's (and my) concern about excessive height. Alternatively, after hearing a number of antique motorboats with inboard, four stroke engines, muffled only by water, (they're pretty quiet) what about a small, metal tank out front, lidded, with the exhaust burbling inside, exhausting thru a stack out the top? I'm half serious here...I like that glubglub...glubglub sound of the mahogany hulls.... The tank would also act as a front counterweight. Any ideas? I'm imagining something from the bowels of some commercial HVAC equip. that civilians like me never see.... Thanks, Peter
thedaddycat Posted October 29, 2003 Posted October 29, 2003 The screen baffle is the "Down and Dirty-Cheap and Easy" way to quiet down an exhaust. You can put it anywhere in the exhaust line. Just take a strip of 1/8" screen that's maybe 3-4" wide by a foot or so long and roll it up like a soda straw. Cut it to length for where you want to put it if necessary. I pinched the ends of this one to help form a "plate" at each end that would help divert the exhaust gases through the screen baffles..... The next pics show another thing I did, making an accordion fold in a length of perforated sheet and grinding the corners off so it would fit in the round pipe. This is what it looks like from the end. This baffle provides some noise reduction, but since it has a minimal restriction on flow it takes a lot to tone down a "Thumper Briggs". I have this material in the exhaust of the B-112 now(moved stack muffler over from 3310 V w/ heavy side plates....)starting where the first bell reducer opens up the pipe about an inch or so off the block. I have it inside the elbow, pipe, and even inside the muffler can too. That muffler is just a cylinder with a perforated pipe running through the middle of it. The accordion folds force the gases out and around them, spreading out the pulse of the exhaust...
BigSix Posted October 29, 2003 Posted October 29, 2003 Pat: Thanks for passing on your findings with the Lo Tones. I'll bet Kirk's "accordian folded perforated sheet" would provide some relief, especially if you did it in the elbow, if possible, as well as the can itself. Kirk: thanks for that post. I must have missed the sheet part last time--I only remembered the rolled screen. Great pics and idea--I'm definitely gonna give that a go myself--thanks! Peter
rjgoth Posted October 29, 2003 Author Posted October 29, 2003 Kirk, thanks for the tips with the screen and perf sheet metal... I will try that one out. Peter that sounds like a very interesting idea. What about the water getting sucked back up the exhaust when the engine is shut off since there woudl be a partial vacuum in the pipe thats submerged under water? Where can one get a new Nelson style can muffler? Ive heard that Jacks has them but I havent been able to find one on their site. Thanks again for the tips Ryan
BigSix Posted October 29, 2003 Posted October 29, 2003 Ryan: Hey--I'm glad you're not immediately blowing my watermuffler idea "out of the water" (sorry!). And I may be about to expose my ignorance here, but I'm not sure I agree with you here, when you say: quote:What about the water getting sucked back up the exhaust when the engine is shut off since there woudl be a partial vacuum in the pipe thats submerged under water? In my mind, whether combustion occurs or not, once ignition is cut and the engine spins down, the engine would still be acting like an airpump, would it not? IOW, the engine is still intaking through the intake valve, and exhausting the compressed atmosphere, through the exhaust valve. It would seem to me the air flow would not reverse in any significant fashion, and the exhaust stroke would continue to scavenge the combustion chamber, whether there was fire in the hole or not. I guess this can be checked by immediately shutting down a cold engine and putting one's hand over the exhaust, to see if there is consistent exhaust pressure as it spins down? If I'm wrong, above, hopefully someone will correct me, and then I will go to my fallback position, i.e., that due to a system of traps and elbows on boats, they don't have this problem, so it must be possible? Maybe the tank would have to be run so low on the front of the tractor as to block attachments/PTO, but it would seem that it's just a matter of engineering, if the problem exists at all. Ryan, I suspect there's bigger problems with my idea than the one you raise. Personally, I wonder if the engine wouldn't either blow ALL of the water out of the box, throught the stack or whether the back pressure would be too excessive to even run? On this latter, while I know there were single cylinder antique boats, I don't know if they used underwater exhaust. I'm thinking that a multi-cylinder engine would have an easier time of an underwater exhaust, i.e., overcoming the back pressure, than a one lunger? And, of course, I'm only guessing that the water would provide a significant db reduction. I'm probably "all wet" (sorry--not really!) in my idea, but it has bugged me for a while, so I appreciate your feedback, Ryan, and welcome more of it, from all interested parties. Thanks again, Peter
ReedS Posted October 29, 2003 Posted October 29, 2003 Peter, I have an 18ft Century powered by a small block chevy. Your more than welcome to stand behind it on a wot take off and then tell me how quiet the water makes it! LOL:D The theory insn't off the wall but it really only works well when the boat is idling around and then you get that wonderful burbble burble. There is some muffling effect of the cooling water when it's dumped into the exhaust but once you lose the water off the transom most of the muffling is gone! A water muffler might work but there are a bunch of obstacles I see with this approach,1)water freezes,2)as the exhaust passes through the water it tends to leave some nastys behind in the water,3) since water evaporates with heat you'll need to constantly "fill" the muffler,4)the muffler would have to be placed in such a way that water won't run back into the engine (that can cause a nasty thing called hydro-lock which most engines dislike)5) You'll need a non-corrosive material to make this muffler (since water dislikes steel along with those nasty byproducts 6) I can't think of any more at the moment and I'm not writing this to blow you out of the "water" but rather to point out some of the shortcomings that I can see with a water muffler. Just my 2c worth and a little bit of marine experience thrown in.
BigSix Posted October 30, 2003 Posted October 30, 2003 Reed: I read your whole post with a big smile--thanks! I sometimes go the the Clayton, NY antique boat show--the museum that puts it on claims to be the largest (freshwater?) collection of antique boats, and I well know the mechanical cacaphony of those mahogany monsters like yours! Now that's the kind of sound I like to preserve my hearing FOR, not from, by muffling my tractor. I LOVE that sound--and I had been thinking that those boats are only really quiet at idle. I guess we couldn't get much work done with our tractors at idle, could we-lol? I have a 22' Starcraft Islander, a pickup truck compared to a fine boat like yours, but it does have an sweet, 250 inline Chevy six (same engine as in my Island van, but higher output, with a 2 bbl., for 165 hp.) However, it's a Mercruiser, so the exhaust is always way muffled, always under the water, other than what surfaces thru and around the gimbal housing. I think all the concerns you raised are killers to my idea--I was envisioning some form of antifreeze, but then there might be health risks if you breathe the heated fumes. I guess it's a loser-there's no substitute for the sound of a V-8 at water level and WOT, huh? My boat's still in the H20--yours? Gotta pull it soon--last two years I pulled it long after snow plows had been employed. Losing my taste for the drama of that part of boating. Come close to thinking about packing the chainsaw for the ice, as some of my friends have had to do. No thanks! But thanks for the feedback. Peter
ReedS Posted October 30, 2003 Posted October 30, 2003 Peter I'm glad you could read my post with a smile, I was a bit worried that you might take it the wrong way.:D Unfortunatly they draw the lake down starting Columbus Day weekend (although with all the rain it's back up) and watching one of my neighbor boats end up grounded gave me the push to take my boat out a couple of weeks ago and my plan is to take the docks out this weekend while it's warm. I sure do wish I had one of those old woody's they can be so absolutly gorgeous when done properly!:p But I am satisfied with my 'glass boat. There about a dozen or so Century's here as well a correct craft or two not many woody's though.:( As you can see there are just a few engineering demands to be met while making a water muffler that would work on an air cooled engine. I'm not saying that one couldn't be made especially if you wanted to expierement but to make one for the masses well........The idea certainly is interesting. Well enough of my rambling and thanks for letting me present an opposing view!:)
DaleC Posted October 30, 2003 Posted October 30, 2003 Ryan, The Tractor Supply has an AC muffler Called an AC-1 that I put on my B-12. It is a vast improvement over the round kolhers I was using. I shortened mine a little so that the tip of the stack is right at or just above eye level. It is a little tall for trees, but I have found that a mature tree is no problem and a young tree is managable because you trim with the right side of the mower anyway and that usually gets the muffler out of the low limbs. I like it. It reminds me of an old four cylinder tractor when it is underload. Brings back childhood memories. I want to agree with Kent on one thing. . .You really do need ear protection when using these old tractors. I am going to invest in a set of ear MUFFS soon.
BigSix Posted October 31, 2003 Posted October 31, 2003 Reed: No worries, my friend. You were humorous, listening, diplomatic and correct. I usually only get bent out of shape when three or more of those qualities are missing in a response, like where cafinated beverages are served, shall we say--lol? On top of those three qualities, I found your post insightful and very informative, like most in Talking Tractors--and that's what I come here for-hehe. The way you describe taking out the docks, etc.., reminds me of my buddy's cottage on Owasco Lake, near Auburn, NY. You wouldn't by chance be up thatta way, would ya? I boat in the St. Lawerence River, north of Syracuse, NY. Uh oh, I feel a little "bow steering" going on...I fear we're sailing off topic, and the wind's pickin' up....8D Good luck with the winterization. I'm right behind (as usual) you! Peter
Dadsy98 Posted October 31, 2003 Posted October 31, 2003 I used a Harley stock muffler on my 312. It's only loud at WOT...
BigSix Posted November 4, 2003 Posted November 4, 2003 Dady's: I knew someone had done that here--now that's a stack!
Dadsy98 Posted November 5, 2003 Posted November 5, 2003 thanks Peter, It took a while to get used to, tree branches and all. It has a nice low tone to it now. :)
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