slb04786 Posted October 28, 2003 Posted October 28, 2003 Hey guys, I'm looking to purchase a Simplicity 7116 that has a broken connecting rod. I haven't got the tractor home to tear into it so I am going on "worst case scenario" on internal damage from the connecting rod breaking. I have a line on a Kohler 20 HP engine. The problem is the Briggs has a 1" shaft, I believe, and the Kohler has a 1.125" shaft. Is there an adapter or driveshaft that will fit my tractor and fit a 1.125" shaft? Would it be a problem putting in the Kohler as far as alignment on the frame? I know I would have to rewire and replace the ketswitch for the different ignition. The Kohler is a V-Twin. Anything else I should consider before I go the Kohler route? I know Sam did the Honda route. All comments are appreciated. Stan
rjgoth Posted October 28, 2003 Posted October 28, 2003 Hello Stan, I am not sure if there is a shaft adaptor, however if you know what you need made up you can have a machine shop make up an adaptor for you. Same goes for the engine mounting, you can either drill new holes in your frame or make and adaptor mounting block that will accomodate the bolt patterns from the engine block to those of the frame. I dont know if this was of any help or not. Good luck and let us know how it turns out. Ryan
Salthart Posted October 28, 2003 Posted October 28, 2003 I'm guessing that your talking about going from a 16 briggs single to a kohler twin like an M20-s etc ? Well, your tractor is driven from the flywheel side of the engine so shaft Dia, isn't a problem. Getting the engine into the frame is. The ( LOL Someone keep me right on numbers here, thanks in advance ) 7117s used a kohler twin and the left and right sides of the frame where the engine sits was lowered on models that used twins. I have made an engine swap like this before and getting the drive shaft parts found/made was the only real problem. ( I had a local machine shop make them ) Take a clean and neat piece of corragated cardboard and set the twin down on it with a bit of a thump, Take a 3/8ths bolt and clamp it in vice grips and heat it red with a torch. THen put it down all 4 engine mount holes and you have an instant template. Messure the highth from the surface the engine is setting on to the cylinder cooling fins and mark this hight on the frame sides so you can cut them to fit. Getting center-line is a bit tougher. I had an old laythe and made a collar to fit the input shaft for the BGB. The collar was made to hold a cheep lazer pointer I had bought at auto-zone or radio shack. Once mounted I could turn the shatf while watching the "Spot" on the wall. once it didn't move I knew I was centered and bolted a couple of coathanger "Pointers" front and rear of where the engine mounts. Then held cardboard to find center of the lazer beam and bent the wire till it stayed center, front and rear..Now I set the engine in place and got the flywheel bolt and pto shaft centered with the pointers. Use the hot bolt in the visegrips again to mark drill locations. It may be that the machine your speaking of is already drilled for the twins, and thats great. But if not, getting the engine in line will make a world of difference in how your tractor lasts. And even if you do have the drive parts made don't leave out the drive discs. I have done this 8 or 10 times over the years and didn't have any trouble with hoods fitting but someone else may have done a swap that did . The 7790 I put an M20 in was by far the hardest swap I did. BTW, I think you will need to route the exhaust also. P.S. Building the 16 may be the better route IMO, good luck either way..
Al Posted October 28, 2003 Posted October 28, 2003 Hi, We do a kit that includes the correct Kohler Command engine, everything needed to install it and complete step by step instructions written for installation by consumers. The engine that we use has been temperature certified in this tractor series. The kit sells for 1995.00. I don't know if you are interested, but you can get more info at our website. www.repowereng.com Call me at 1-800-462-2218 if you have any interest in this approach. Thanks, Al Eden
fuzy Posted October 29, 2003 Posted October 29, 2003 I have swapped some twin 17's to the command v-twin in the past. I don't think height is an issue in your case but measure or set the 2 engines side by side and line up the cranks. You will need to probably relocate the holes and work the pan a bit. If memory serves me right some of the new holes line up where the pan is formed down. We would weld a small filler plate in soe you aren't letting a mounting ear float in the middle of nowhere. I have the list of all the parts needed to do a conversion. E-mail me at parts@simplicityparts.com and I can send you the list with updated pricing. I want to say the prices for all parts will run you between $250-$300. New wiring harness, keyswitch, muffler, drive components, cables, etc. When I did the swaps we put all new Simplicity parts in but if you are handy you may want to skip some of the parts. We tried to make it a perfect swap changing every wrong part a not reworking them. The choice is yours. John
slb04786 Posted October 29, 2003 Author Posted October 29, 2003 Thanks for the responses guys. That is what I was looking for. New ideas. If I end up going with the Kohler 20 HP I'll keep you posted. Stan
ambler Posted October 29, 2003 Posted October 29, 2003 I have a 7119H with a 20 hp magnum. You are going to need to cut the frame. fix the briggs, otherwise you have heat problems. Another thing is you will need a new wiring harness with the kohler.
fuzy Posted October 29, 2003 Posted October 29, 2003 Heat shouldn't really be a problem with the v-twin. It does not seem to run as hot and is narrower than a magnum.
ambler Posted October 29, 2003 Posted October 29, 2003 The Magnum uses the same heat shields as the KT. Als whole thing is working out the heat transfer, so that Kohler will warranty the engine.
fuzy Posted October 30, 2003 Posted October 30, 2003 Everyone seems to be worried about heat. Simplicity ran the 18hp command for several years in the sovereign series tractor. Heat has never been an issue. We have never seen any failures. I can't think of any reason Kohler would deny a warranty claim if someone put a command into any 7100 or newer Sovereign tractor.
ambler Posted October 30, 2003 Posted October 30, 2003 Simplicity designed and tested those heat shields all of which have to be in place to comply with OEM warranties. The command is aluminum block over head valve system and more sensitive and less forgiving than the old cast irons. Kohler looks seriously at whether it is a qualified application before they honor wrranties. Those 7100 hoods will just recirculate heat without the shielding. Al Eden has done his homework on his repower and Kohler has approved.
fuzy Posted October 31, 2003 Posted October 31, 2003 I don't mean to beat this topic to death or argue about it but I have to disagree. Simplicity used the ch18s command engine in the Sovereign tractor from 1993 to 1997 without any real changes to the hood or heat shields as compared to the 7117 with the kt17 kohler or the 7116 with the briggs in it. And they also used the ch18 & ch20 in the sunstar from 1993 to 1997 which is even more enclosed in a full hood and side panels. All without any heat issues. The only real extra (other than the standard engine shrouds) heat shield on a 7116, a 7117, and a sovereign with the ch18 were on the mufflers. My guess is to protect the hood's paint form the extreme heat. I also feel that the ohv command could actually deal with heat a bit better. To start off an ohv valve train runs cooler due to not being next to the extreme heat of the cylinder walls. And an aluminum block has better heat dissipation than cast iron does. Which inturn means cooler running. The need to do major valve jobs has also dropped since going to overhaed valve engines. And we are also seeing less blown connecting rods. I will agree it appears eden has done a great job of putting a kit together. And I also think it is great that he has done hot room testing. Those kinds of tests put an engine to it's extremes. Usually more extreme than an average user could ever do. And as an individual that has filed hundreds of warranty claims I have yet to have one come back rejected because the engine was not qualified by an engine manufacturer to be in a particular application. You would be amazed at what they will cover after a customer begins to breath down their necks. They will cover obvious customer neglect issues just to keep the customer happy. Again I appologize if I am stepping on anyone's toes but I just had to give my 2 cents.
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