Boney Posted November 8, 2003 Posted November 8, 2003 I have never painted a tractor or car before. Done alot of painting on wood just never metal. Is there a place on the net for learning the basics about it? I am looking to find answers to the basic questions like does it matter which primer you use. which paints can you wet sand,,,,ect. I went to the library and all they had was about cars and using HVLP, nothing about spray cans. Thank for any help with this :)
DaleC Posted November 8, 2003 Posted November 8, 2003 Boney, Go to an automotive paint supplier, such as you local Napa store and ask all the questions you want. There is some basic paint knowledge that you need as far as what to use under what, surface prep, etc., they should be able to help you with. The standard old red oxide primer can be used over and with about anything. It even comes in filling weights which lets you fill imperfections in the surface you are painting. If you Sand through the old finish, before you quit, grab a can of red oxide primer and cover the bare metal up to prevent oxidation, (Fancy word for rust), which can occur to the unaided (Same as naked, but we don't use them words here. This is a family site-)eye within hours.
BigSix Posted November 9, 2003 Posted November 9, 2003 Boney: Dale is right about the need to seal up "naked" steel, i.e., rust doesn't need "overnight" to occur. Just a few hours.... Basic Primers and Rust However, I would add that, at least regarding a common gray primer/surfacer I am familiar with, (Ditzler's primer/surfacer) this primer is not water proof. It will prevent rust, as Dale said, at least for weeks, if not months, as long as the work is not exposed to weather. That's why I laugh when I see people driving their cars around in gray primer, with nice bodywork underneath. Heck, I've done it myself, but I know that eventually, the rust will come through. Many people mistakenly believe primer to be waterproof. Now, certain "pimer/sealers" may be waterproof, but I have no experience with them. While I have not used red primers much, I assume the same is true of them as well, i.e., that they are not waterproof either. Wetsanding In my experience, you can wetsand most paints. Rustoleum gives problems, esp. the "Dirty Metal Primer," however, which used to contain fish oil. Not sure if it still does, but their Dirty Metal Primer would "ball up" somewhat, cloggging even the wetsand paper. I believe even their topcoats do this more than some others, but I assume that is part of the reason their so durable, IMHO. You can still wetsand them--I've done it many times--you just use up more paper that you cannot unclog. I use a stiff bristle brush to clean the paper while wetsanding such paint--helps unclog the sandpaper. They can flex and have a very waterproof nature--at least, the Rustoleum topcoats do. And the dirty metal primer is VERY good for its intended purpose--to seal up such metal for use under Rustoleum topcoats. Preparation-the Key to Rust Prevention... Under BOTH of those, for rusty metal, and even more so under most non-Rustoleum paints, consider using 2 coats of "Extend," a product which "locks" up rust, chemically. I continue to be very satisfied with this product, and no, I don't own it/sell it, or otherwise benefit from it's sale. Approx. 3 years ago, I used it on my pickup roof, which had oxidized to raw, red rust--NO paint at all left. I couldn't sand all of the rust off, even with a rotary sander, due to pits and the skin flexing. I used 2 coats of Extend, (follow directions to the letter, i.e., do NOT contaminate what's in the bottle with what you're using--IOW, pour out what you need into a small, plastic tray and toss it if you have leftover) then Rust. Dirty Metal Primer, then Rustoleum Almond. There are whole discussions of similar products here, if you search. Of course, sandblasting is best of all, but I was not able to do so here. Anyway, to date, I have NO rust bleed through yet-and the truck is out 24/7/365, and it's been about three years. Rollers--A Viable, Cheap, Easy Alternative to Spraying... Btw, consider foam rollers instead of the expense, mess, extra work (masking for overspray) and health hazards of spraying. All of the above pickup (cab roof only--I made it a two-tone, as truck is gray) paints were rolled on w/ a small foam roller and look sprayed, due to Rustoleum's ability to flow, slowly, after application, and end up simulating a normal-to-heavy factory-looking "orange peel" texture. People are very surprised, if not disbelieving, when I tell them I rolled it, especially down the vertical cab back, where it did not run, yet went on thick enough to flow out into the mild orange peel.... It is my understanding that many airplanes are successfully painted with foam rollers. I don't know why. I also am not vouching for the appearance of rolled paint when not done using Rustoleum paints, which I feel are heavier than many other paints, and my flow out better, under the heavy application a roller tends to lay down, than other paints. (I have no connection to the Rustoleum products or company, either.) Guides to Bodywork Info... I don't know of a website source, but I would think a big book store would have a guide to bodywork, which will cover not only paints, but preparation, which is even more important than what type of paint. Even cheap paint on top of proper preparation will grossly outlast the best paints on top of improper preparation. (And that's not just "my opinion." I have found Hayne's manuals to be helpful, and I have their Automotive Electrical Manual very accessible, and affordable--apporx. $20.00. I suspect if Haynes or Clymer's published a bodywork manual, it would answer most of your paint questions. Just my 2 crona....
Boney Posted November 10, 2003 Author Posted November 10, 2003 BigSix thnk you very much for all the usefull info,,,,learned a lot from you,,,I will have to head out and look for some books :)
BigSix Posted November 10, 2003 Posted November 10, 2003 Boney: You're most welcome. You know, upon further reflection, I guess roller-painting a tractor would not be easier than spraying, in terms of all the nooks and crannies, under hood, in-frame, etc..., that a tractor has. Rolling would be easier for the panels, but even there, if you can't fit (even a small, 2-3") roller right up next to the edges of panels, due to interference, say, around the gearshift, near engine, inside the frame, etc..., that would be a pain. So you would either have to use a round, longer-bristled brush, in conjunction with the roller, for the flatter panels, or spray. And if you're now talking about a brush and roller together, and keeping in mind it's still not gonna look as nice as a spray job, well, you might be happier with spray cans. It really depends on how nice the overall look you're going for is, how much disassembly you're willing to do, the quality of prep you've done, etc.... I guess rolling on body panels is a lot easier than trying to roll a little tractor would be. I haven't changed my mind on my other assertions, however--LoL! Good luck with your project. Let us know if you have more questions. Peter
Boney Posted November 10, 2003 Author Posted November 10, 2003 Bigsix, I would really like to make it look nice. I also like learning about different things so I want to learn about using fillers, primers, types of paints ect. I figure If I try as hard as I can and shoot for the stars maybe just maybe I can end up with something 1/2 as nice as Ksevers tractors. And thnx for taking the time to give me the info you did :)
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