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Bruce P

Hard start

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Bruce P
I have a 1972 Simplicity 3410. My problem is it starts hard in the winter but fine in the summer. I know the carb can be adjusted a little for the weather change but it also seems I have heard that it may not be rolling over fast enough. I think this is it. It has a starter generator rebuilt last year and been fine, points and armature which are in good shape. I often try starting until the batery dies, batery is in good shape also the tractor even did it when the battery was new and the battery has a fairly high CCA (cold cranking amps), I take the battery out off my truck and it rolls it a lot faster and it starts. I thought some one told me I could change over the ignition system and this would help a lot. So I thought I would change it over. Can any one tell me how to do this and which system is the best way to go.

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UCD
First thing I would do is Clean the battery cables. The positive cable on the battery and connection on solenoid. The negative cable both on battery and connection to ground. Make sure these connections are good and clean. If your ground cable goes to the frame make sure you have a good ground from the frame to the engine. If this ground connection is though the engine mounts add a ground wire from the frame to the engine. A high resistance ground connection can cause the symptoms you describe. Also check connections to the points and clean and adjust the points. What weight oil are you using? Besure the clutch is pushed in as this will allow the engine to spin faster.

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MPH
Your truck battery has a lot more cold cranking amps then a garden tractor battery. Like Maynard said, step in the clutch if your not. I use Mobil one 10-30 in mine, and I still put a heat pad on the bottom of the oil pan for winter use. Plug it in for an hour and it starts like summer time. Course now, they sit in the shop if I don't need to work on the pick-up..

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Salthart
There are quite a few things that can be the cause of your troubles. The first thing I would try would be replacing the spark plug.. Second thing I would look at would be the choke cable. Make sure that the choke is being pulled all the way shut. And having to richen the mix for cold weather is no sin. In fact it is science. Cold air is more dense and thus requires more fuel. Last and maybe most important. If you have had your battery checked on a good machine, And it checks good, I would make sure the Valve clearance is set to factory specs. To much lash clearance means the factory compression release can not work. To give you an Idea of what I'm saying.. I have a 3415H. It has a small 15 dollar lawn and garden battery in it from NAPA auto parts. It has never had anything but straight 50 weight oil in it from the day I rebuilt it and at 25 degrees this morning it starts no problem. Question.... When you say the S/G was rebuilt.. Does that mean new brushes were installed or was the thing checked on a growler etc and Ohm'd out to factory specs ? UCD is 100% right on all he said. And if there is trouble with the wires etc you will get a hot spot and that in a hurry.. Just let it spin for 30 seconds and feel of all the wires. If one is hot, re-do the connections. Good luck

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roma3112
Bruce I agree with maynard clean the contacts/cables, and i would add one thing after you do that coat the terminals lightly with some petroleum jelly to prevent corrosion. As far as the carb goes I would check to make sure that the choke is fully closing before you start re-adjusting the mixture valves. When the ambient temp is high in the summer you may not need the choke as much as you do in the summer. good luck john

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Bruce P
Well, I pulled the engine, I had planed on this any way since it had been a couple years, it really needed the cooling fins cleaned out and with this model you have to pull it to clean up the fly wheel and armature, so in the process I cleaned the connections and coated with corosion resistant jell and adjusted the gaps. I'll probably start putting it back in tomorrow at which time I'll check on the choke adjustment, replace the plug, new air filter and motor oil. The s/g was done at a local auto electric shop and they repair and rebuild electrical parts for any thing. It had new brushes and bearing installed and I'm sure to factory spec. They are pretty good. My battery grounds directly to the engine, (a head bolt) but I do not have a ground strap from the engine to the frame so I will do this, and I run 10w30 motor oil. That should answer a couple of questions. The heat pad is a good idea too. Thanks, I'll try that if I still need to. It's a great tractor other than the hard starting in the winter so I guess if I don't need to or have to I don't want to change the electrical system, so thanks for all the good ideas! I'll let you know how it ends up. I aquired this baby pretty well beat up about five years ago and built it into what it is today, (rewired it, rebuilt the engine, cleaned up, painted, and replaced a few beat up parts) I even found a snow blower and since this model didn't come with a blower I had to modify the blower hitch, and make the tractor pully so I could aline it to the blower pully in the winter and the mower pully in the summer and then get the belt lenth and order it for the blower, and it all works great! so I'm kinda proud of it. It is a great tractor. Simply the best! Bruce

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goatfarmer
How are you starting it? My 3410 was always hard to start with the original engine on it. The local dealer said to start the old Briggs engines when cold,full choke,but just barely crack the throttle.That engine is now on my 2110,and it always starts,even when sitting in the unheated garage for weeks without being used.|)

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Tom_Byrne
MY TWO CENTS: Bruce, I have a "very tempremental" Broadmoor with a pull start that starts great in the summer but impossible to start in the winter. I tuned it, rebuilt the carb and cleaned everything and it STILL would not start in cold weather, when I need it most. Many of the guys here suggested heating the block, like Marty said. I bought an aluminum, cone shaped drop lite and put an 80 watt bulb in it. Put it close to the engine on the opposite side of the carb. In about 1/2 hour she fires right up. If all the good advice fails give it a shot.

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simplicity707
I've got that old '67 Broadmoor. It's almost impossible to start in cold weather. It's got the starter/generator on it and it'll just sit there and turn over all day and won't start. I choke it, do everything, but it'll just turn over, and eventually it will fire up. I might try that heat on the block idea though....

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Salthart
Valves wear on the seat. And as they do this, the stem gets "Longer" so to speak. On a Briggs engine, there is a small "Rize" on the camshaft that momentarily releaves compression. If you have trouble with cold starts after a full tune up ,( as stated above by someone ) Then dropping the carb and the valve cover to check valve clearance is really no big deal. If you have less "Gap" than specs call for then you would have a low compression situation at low speed and valves that are doomed to burn. The other side of the coin is to much clearence. In this case the compression release won't work at all and the engine will be hard to turn over..

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HubbardRA
Marty, My 10 Hp B/S had the compression release removed many years ago for more bottom end torque for tractor pulling. It starts fine with the larger 51 battery. I thought my starter-generator wasn't working properly until I put in the larger battery. No problems since.

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Spencyg
I have the a similar problem, but my issuse is that my belt-drive starter/generator slips when the engine is cold. I have the it tensioned as much as I dare for fear of trashing the starter bearings. When it is cold, the battery will turn the starter over just fine, but the belt will just howl instead of turning over the engine. Is there any cure for this extremely aggrivating ailment? Spence

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MaxN
Had a similiar problem with my 7013. It did not want to start and run under 55 degrees. Spent alot of time trying to figure it out. Looked at point gap and was just a tiny bit more than 20 thou. Closed them a bit and it now starts great!!!Good luck

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HubbardRA
Without a compression release, sometimes I have to bump the starter a couple of times to get the engine past compression or otherwise the belt will slip. I cannot put enough tension on my belt to stop all of the slipping. Been living with this problem for 15 years, guess it is too late to worry about it now.

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powerking_one
Rod, Kent, all: In my conversations with Al Eden, he noted that Simplicity elected to make their own S/G pulley as opposed to say Cub Cadet, Case, Gravely, others; who used the ones manufactured & supplied by DELCO-REMY. The Simplicity pulley is nothing more than mild cold rolled steel which developes wear in the V-profile over time resulting in belt slippage. The stamped-steel looking OEM Delco-Remy pulley is really a very tough case hardened variety that almost never wears or is prone to belt slippage. V-point of view; Tom(PK)

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stumpy
While I hate to suggest it, those with belt-slippage problems might try squirting a little belt dressing on the belt. If it works than the permanent fix is undoubtably a replacement S/G pulley and possibly a belt....or just squirt now and then. Beyond that, for cold problems, a little heat (as MPH suggests) is the general solution. I've spent most of my life in cold places and treat these machines the same way as I used to deal with diesel rigs. The heat pad is an obvious safe solution. If one isn't handy, and the machine is parked outside, I put a little space heater under there and throw an old blanket and canvas tarp on the machine (careful about that heater clearance and flammables, though). Now and then I've had to deal with an engine that wasn't near a 110v power source....so I keep one of those cheap little "sunflower-type" radiant heaters around that screws on to a one-pound green propane can. Once again, be careful about letting something get too close to the heater. The other thing I've habitually done to my mag-type air cooled engines (except in aircraft :)) is adapt them to automotive-type coil ignitions, although I like to stick with points and condensors 'cause they're easier to troubleshoot when problems arise. As long as the battery is good, coil ignitions fire up at much lower revs and temperatures, and I hate screwing around with mag ignitions every winter.

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HubbardRA
Tom, My problem is not the pulley. This is not a Simplicity engine, it has a low mount starter. It came off another make of tractor. I do not have a compression release because I filed it off many years ago. Sometimes the engine will stall the S-G if the belt doesn't slip. I have to bump it past compression to get rotating speed before it hits compression again. Then it starts first pop. It runs sweet and is loaded with low speed power. With battery coil ignition, no compression release, and the small carb from a 7 Hp engine, this engine performs more like a 12 Hp or larger than the 10 Hp that it was from the factory. In fact it powers my AC716H with 48 inch mower deck with no lack of power. I was looking for another 16 Hp for that machine till I started using this engine. Then I asked myself the question "Why"? Answer was obvious.

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