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badcars

how about guages

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badcars
just wondering, let my tracttor run for baout 30 min before draining the oil today. it is about 25 degrees, the cooling fins never got hot to the touch, maybe just a little warm. is there a temp guage that may mount to a head bolt or something. just curious. i also wouldnt mind a tach/hour meter as long as it was done in good taste. by the way thanks for the oil advice. drained the 30wt today, and replaced it with castrol syntec. man i used to think the starter was weak, but it must of been that molasses it was trying to spin on a cold day. it really whizzes now, a major difference. i also bought a ngk plug for it, i love these use them in my race car and they dont fail. time will tell if it gives a quicker start though. badcars

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Kent
Yes. I've used VDO brand head temperature gauges with two different types of senders on VWs. One went on the base of the sparkplug, while the other wedged between the cooling fins on the head. They're not cheap, though... Here's some examples. http://www.egauges.com/eg_typeI.asp?Type=Cylinder_Head_Temp&Cart= [img]http://www.egauges.com/images/vdo/310-901.jpg[/img]

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MPH
Tiny Tach makes a hour/tac that works ok. I have 2 so far, would prefer a real dial tach but have yet to find one for these one bangers.. The tiny Tach's run about 50 bucks and a good dealer should have them.. MPH

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dirtsaver
Chris I can't remember the brand but we had a combo tach/temp gage we used on our Champ CageCart racing gocarts. They were about $35-$40. the probe attatched to the sparkplug wire. I don't have any around now but was thinking one would be nice on a tractor. Larry

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BLT
Unless you know what values are good or bad, temp gauges on air cooled engines are a VERY POOR INVESTMENT. And the air cooled engine people don't make this public knowledge. I think Al Eden is as close as you are going for this info and he would be taking food off his dinner plate if he shared it. This summer I am going to do a cooling index on my Sunstar as I think I have a cooling problem with my CH 20 engine. It doesn't take much but a 90 deg day and about 18" of tall grass to knock down and one hours worth of running and a couple of probes to measure the air temp comming off of both heads. There are so many variables because you are lacking a thermostat, the money would be better invested in an oil temp gauge or some good ag tires.

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badcars
like you said you could put a bushing in the oil drain and use a standard auto temp guage there, but also as you said without a baseline you really wouldnt know what you were looking for. i was hoping someone would kind of ante up the operating temp ranges, really when are you gonna start burning it down...anyone?.....anybody? badcars

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Kent
The drainplug wiil NOT give an accurate reading. Ideally you'd want to measure the oil temperature of the oil just before or after the oil pump, before it goes into the passages of the engine block. On a non-pressurized, splash system like the old ones had, you're outta luck... As far as head temp goes, you'd have to watch it, under all kinds of conditions and establish what was the normal operating range for your engine. These engines are designed to be used in a fairly narror RPM range, meaning a smaller variation in air flow, than something like the VW engine (which DID have a thermostat). Even with the thermostat, head temperature would fluctuate between 350 - 500 degrees Fahrenheit. When it went above 500 -- you really kept an eye on it, and starting thinking of ways to lessen the heat. As an anology for mowing, you'd be looking to take smaller "swaths" to lighten the load on the engine... There are MANY, MANY variables that effect head temperature. Primary ones are valve timing, compression ratios, octane of the fuel you're burning, and ambient temperature. Just the air/fuel mixture, alone, can cause a 25 - 50 degree variation... running rich runs cooler, running lean runs hot... There's been books written about cooling VW engines, and I'm not going to repeat them here... even if I could remember them! :D

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DaleC
On small aircraft engines, which are air cooled, oil temp guages are used. The oil temp gaves an indication of the total engine heat and condition. One cylinder in trouble from oiling or self destruct would give you a high overall engine oil temp. I am with Kent, I just don't remember what "normal" is. I, too, Have wanted to come up with something to measure the engine Temp. I believe that an auto water temp guage, with a sending unit that had a long probe, inserted into the Drain Plug would give you some idea of operating temps. I just don't know what the range would be. I would say that a good place to start would be the high temp range for motor oil. You would definately want it lower than that. Refineries have high limits on heat for their oils. I bet that if you contacted the motor manufacturer that they would tell you what the engine is spected at as far as heat is concerned. Using a cyclinder head guage on a side valve engine sounds good, but if you put the sending unit on the side of the head over the exhaust valve, you will have a much higher reading that if you put it on the opposite side away from the exhaust valve. This is the reason I like the idea of an oil temp guage. I am no expert so this is JMO.

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AC808
I too have used the small VDO guages on several VWs for monitoring oil and head temp. Im currently in the process of installing them on my 71 VW bus. Rockymountain Motor Works has a nice selection. Or, let me know what you need i may jsut have one sitting around. 73 jay

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Agricola
I don't think the water temperature gauges would make it in the oil type application. The water temp gauges to up to around 250F. I would be willing to wager that would be around 100 lower than the oil runs. I wonder if McMaster Carr might not have an industrial unit that might work.

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Nubian
Speaking of gauges I've been wanting to put an hour meter on my generator (Generac 10k EXL 18hp Vanguard). There is no other practical way for me to keep track of usage for servicing etc.... any ideas?

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SmilinSam
quote:
Originally posted by Nubian
Speaking of gauges I've been wanting to put an hour meter on my generator (Generac 10k EXL 18hp Vanguard). There is no other practical way for me to keep track of usage for servicing etc.... any ideas?
Eddy If its an electric start with a ignition switch that has a accesory circuit, adding a hour meter is no problem . I think one side of the Hour meter goes to ground and the other gets power from the accesory circuit. That way when the Keyswitch is in the on position the hour meter runs. When in the off position engine and hour meter are off. PRoblem I have is I leave the switch on once in a while and add a couple hundred hours to my meter before the battrey goes dead.

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Kent
If you're looking for automotive type gauges, check this link: http://www.egauges.com/eg_types.asp?Cart= As Agricola stated, you need a gauge that'll go to 350 degrees for oil temp... But, again: 1. The drain plug will give a bad reading, since it isn't in the main oil flow... You want to read the oil that the engine is picking up and using -- not what's over in some "backwater" or "eddy current". 2. I don't see a way to get a good reading on a splash-type oiling system, unless you can find a guage that uses the dipstick as the sending unit. It would stick down more into the middle of the oil pan. VDO used to make one like that for air-cooled engines, but I haven't seen one in a long time...

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Al
Hi, Kent is right on, putting a temp sensor in the drain plug gives a false reading. Liquid cooled engines such as race cars see oil temperature up around 270 degrees. Air cooled may go above that some. The oil temp is affected by: heat exchange from the crankcase, engine load, environmental temp, rpm, heat radiated from the fins, the amount of grease etc on outside of the engine, material the engine is made from, igniton timing, fuel mixture, spark plug heat range, physical cooling factors, [fan, ducting, enclosure, etc] air intake source, muffler back pressure, and even how effective a heat radiator the base the engine is bolted to is. Putting the sensor in the drain, the crankcase wicks heat from the oil. The sensor needs to be as close to the oil pump intake as possible. This is a requirement when temp certifying for Kohler. When we did the temp run on the 400 Deere, the dyno oil tank oil went over 275 degrees on the thermometer that was in the center of the barrel. We had a big blower on the side of the barrel with 40 gallons of oil in it. On the outside and ends the temp was in the 170 to 210 range. This was shooting outside on various points on the barrel with an infrared gun. We are now designing a new oil tank with a heat exchanger in it for the bigger engines. The things that affect head temp are the same as the oil temp. These temps are spec'd for operation under specific conitions. This is how temp testing is done. Giving a number to use is meaningless unless all of the environmental conditions are met. A given number may be too hot under some conditions and may be adequately cool under others. I am hesitant to give arbitrary numbers for this reason. My 2 cents worth and its free, value accordingly. Al Eden

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roma3112
guys I toywed with putting a temp gague on my new tractor but decided against it for these very same reasoons, what i did in my case was to put in an oil pressure gague, upgrade from an ammeter to a volt meter and put in a combo rpm/hour meter. I think that if the fins are kept clean and one uses these machines in a reasonable manner engine temp shouldn't be too much of a factor. Now if you live in AZ and decide to mow that acre or two of 18in grass and its 95+ out mabee you would want to take it easy on the machine.

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SmilinSam
quote:
Originally posted by Nubian
Thanks SmilinSam, I bought the one on Ebay that UCD posted. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2367725616&category=29520
I see you bought that from MJArnold. He lives about 20 minutes from me over in Geneseeo. Alot of his equipment and parts comes from the Simplicity dealership over there. I think those wire in differently than I described, much easier I believe. What I was describing was how to install those round or rectangulaer in the dash tractor types you can buy at farm stores and machinery outlets. I have those wired into a couple of my tractors. I have one like UCD posted and you bought. If yours is like mine it has two wires. One wraps around the spark plug wire and the other grounds to the frame somewhere. The one I have acts a s a tach too. Thats what I bought it for actually so I can set the high speed stops on my engines. They do need powered all the time for the liquid crystal display. They must have a battery in them somehwere. Mine does not have a removable panel to replace it though, so when it goes dead I'll have to breal the glue joint to find it and replace it. HAsn't gone dead in almost two years now though. The crystal displays don't seem to work in cold weather either that I see. I end up bringing my tach/hour meter and my crystal display multi meter into the house when not in use the winter months.

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Boney
I agree with what is being said here about not being able to find a proper place to put the sensor for an oil temp guage. I think it would still be an advantage to have one,,,even if say it was at the oil pan { for example} because even if it may not be acurate a person would still be able to see a rise in the temperature if it where to happen. If a person did not have this guage they would never see the rise in temp. I guess what i am saying is that a inaccurate temperature reading that rises is better then not having any measurement reading at all isn't it? Not being a mechanic I may be miising somthing here,,,,Is this a bad way to look at it ?

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Roy
When I bought my B & S Tiny Tach the literature said the internal battery was good for 7 years. When the battery dies it is either do like Smiling Sam said to replace the battery or buy a new unit. Would be nice if the batrery was replaceable.

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BLT
quote:
Originally posted by Roy
When I bought my B & S Tiny Tach the literature said the internal battery was good for 7 years. When the battery dies it is either do like Smiling Sam said to replace the battery or buy a new unit. Would be nice if the batrery was replaceable.
I bet between now and then, someone will have figured out a way.;)

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