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MPH

Almost MTD'ed

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MPH
While in Anchorage yesterday I stopped in Home Depo to pick up some metalflex corner tape for a upcomng sheetrock tape job, well, had to walk past the plastic jd's and smile at how little I've spent on my 4 working tractors compared to the 3899 price tags on that JUNK. Steering gears almost as loose as my 40 yearold ones..Got to talking with kid working in there and he tried to pawn off an MTD on me cheap, no steering wheel and a few other missing parts. So I asked how cheap, he came back with 200 bucks. Hard as I tried I couldn't see the value of my B-112 in it, Tires too small for anything I have, seat to cheap looking for my Landlord, shuttle tranny was interesting for some project, but afraid it wouldn't take any real work and the 17hp twin IC briggs had the crank shaft turned the wrong way. Still feel like the engine should have been worth 200 bucks, but, I came home empty. How cheaply made are the briggs engines used in the box store tractors??

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rjgoth
Your right man, the newer "box store" tractors seem basically "disposable" compared the the AC and Simplicity tractors that were made in the 1960's. But the only thing that is scarrier than that is that how many of our tractors will be left in say 10, 15 or 20 years. I know some of us are restoring them and such, but as the years go by the parts will be more and more difficult to come by. Briggs has already stopped producing engine parts for the cast iron engines. I am doing one final restoration on my 1966 Landlord and I am going to take very good care of it. The really scarry thing for those of us who "use" our tractors that they eventually will wear out or get too beat up to function, and then what will we do to get parts in say 10 - 15 years? Restore them now while we can..... It is sobering to think about itsn't it?

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dogboy
I've already run into problem of replacement parts,just "borrowed" a coil off a Briggs thats so old i can't ever tell the HP or what year it is,nice old iron horizontal-B&S site no help when they get this old.

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PatRarick
MPH, Basically, speaking about quality, there are only two Briggs engines. All today are aluminum blocks, but one has the aluminum bore, and the other has a cast iron bore (cast iron sleeve cast into the aluminum block). The cast iron bore is called and I/C (industrial/commercial), and the aluminum bore is called either "Kool Bore" or "Dura Bore". Today, even the box store tractors use the I/C engine. To answer the question more clearly, it makes no difference if it is a box store tractor. The engine quality is the same when comparing like engines. A 12 horse vertical shaft I/C on an MTD is the same as a 12 horse vertical shaft I/C on a Simplicity. Added: It often appears that the box store tractors have a lower quality engine. Seems to be that those who purchase the box store tractor for $1,000 realize that they've bought a "throw away" machine, so they don't maintain the engine as well as someone who spends $4,000 for a tractor with the same engine. Pat

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mowerman1193
I agree...a Briggs is a Briggs wether its on a MTD or a Simplicity...as long as its the same model (ie I/C or Cool Bore) I have had a couple MTD's that I picked up cheap and used a season and pass it on..They are'nt too bad just to cut grass I guess but I sure would'nt put a blade/blower on one...

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crequake
Hey Fella's! Could you stop with the JD bashing for a little while? I love my JD 2210 almost as much as my LandLords & B series Allis's. Pick on Sams' Massey for a while, will ya? Nick

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MPH
Nick, been tryin to get my hands on a JD 140 for a couple years now, but those were real ones, these things they built for the box stores are pretty sorry looking. Look under it at the stamped out steering 'gear', or the 3 foot long drive belt to the tranny. I'm almost sure it would buckle with a blade on the front. JD does still built good tractors, just the paint is a little pricey.

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crequake
You]re right Marty, That junk in the box stores is disgraceful - I am amazed that the folks in Moline allowed their name to be associated with them. Even the LX series sold at JD dealerships is embarrassing. I'd put any one of my foot draggers up against a brand new LX series any day of the week. I am really pleased with the 2210 though - its a throw back to real engineering and craftsmanship. Nick

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Leroy
I hate to see the good equipment go the way of the thow away. I invested about $5000 in Commodore equipment and software in hopes of helping to keep that company alive. The Amiga was a far better machine than any built today. corporate greed took it under. Simplicity really should build them like they used to and charge more for them. Many of us would buy one.

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RayS
Terry, my Prestige has one also. The v belt has a life time garantee you won`t see that on any flex disk on a drive shaft. And it will out mow any landlord or sovereign I have ever owned and I have owned alot of them. They are a well engineered tractor and with proper maintenance these tractor will be around along time. I like all the large frame garden tractors. RayS

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10HorseMan
When the Simplicity-AC tractors were built they were built to last a lifetime "STEEL". Mowed 12 years on a hog farm with a B-110 and retired it for restoration. Bought a YARD MAN and now go through at least one per year. :D

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bigcountry
A lot of this comes from your perspective. This is what I have observed over the time that I have worked on lawnmowers. All of your Home Depot JD's are crap, period. They are basically Sabres rebadged. However, the JD LX series is nothing to laugh at. My grandfather has 1 of them and he uses it to mow 5 acres at a time with them. He previously had a '87 JD 180 that managed that yard well too. The transmissions are fairly strong (for lawn tractors) on those models, even the old 180. My '99 GT-235 is no exception either. It has proven itself time and time again to me, I moved a trailer loaded to the brim with landscaping timbers with it one time. I will say though, that my '69 JD 140, will move more than the GT, when I put a new battery and switch in it, because it is built heavier. The weakest one (as far as transmission) would be the 4211H I had. The engine had plenty of power, the weak link was the transmission, it would bog down with an empty cart behind it. The old Wizard I had was actually stronger (transmission). The weakness of the 4211's transmission did not stop me from liking it though. It drove good and cut pretty good. It was a very easy-driving tractor. The Craftsmans are the worst for excessive use of plastic on vital parts. Just look at the steering shaft.

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D-17_Dave
Another way to look at engine life and quelity is I believe because of the use of cheaper bearings, bad alinement of power belts and cheap decks that are not designed for exess grass discharge and the like that it puts a lot more strain on the engines therefor wearing them out sooner than a tractor of better design. I understand the torqe rattings between the old long stroke one lungers and todays higher displacement engines, but I can't help but beleave if you put a nwer moter in an older tracter it would last longer. Although as long as I can keep it going there won't be a need too.

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badcars
as long as the frames and trannys are junk. i ll always have free engines to repower the broadmoors with. people will beg you to haul them off and most of the time the engine will outlive the ayp tractors by several years badcars

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clyde
Well . . .:I I have a MTD mower. I still use it for the lawn 'till I get a deck for my Landlord. It has a 16.5 I/C twin cylinder that I've never had to do anything to except change the oil. I agree the mower isn't anything to write home about, but the engine - especially the I/Cs - seem to be still OK. Now badcars has got me to thinking about using the MTD engine in my Broadmoor. Think going from 7hp to 16.5 hp would be too much?

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mowerman1193
quote:
Originally posted by RayS
Terry, my Prestige has one also. The v belt has a life time garantee you won`t see that on any flex disk on a drive shaft. And it will out mow any landlord or sovereign I have ever owned and I have owned alot of them. They are a well engineered tractor and with proper maintenance these tractor will be around along time. I like all the large frame garden tractors. RayS
I agree,I think the new Simplicity GT's are still well built...Not real impressed with the lighter duty lawn tractors (ie regent ect.)but I guess they are built as good as the older 4000 series..

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mowerman1193
quote:
Originally posted by clyde
Well . . .:I I have a MTD mower. I still use it for the lawn 'till I get a deck for my Landlord. It has a 16.5 I/C twin cylinder that I've never had to do anything to except change the oil. I agree the mower isn't anything to write home about, but the engine - especially the I/Cs - seem to be still OK. Now badcars has got me to thinking about using the MTD engine in my Broadmoor. Think going from 7hp to 16.5 hp would be too much?
Hey clyde,there has been some old Broadmoors on ebay in the past where someone has put a large (16-18hp) twin birggs...I doubt you could ever run out of power...:D

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UCD
Justin/10HorseMan
quote:
Originally posted by 10HorseMan
When the Simplicity-AC tractors were built they were built to last a lifetime "STEEL". Mowed 12 years on a hog farm with a B-110 and retired it for restoration. Bought a YARD MAN and now go through at least one per year.:D
All of this and your only 13 years old

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MikeES
The reason the Conquest and Prestige can handle the warranty (it is a good marketing tool even if the company has to replace a belt every 5 years) is that the frame is heavy enough to prevent frame twisting that keeps the long belt (with good quality pulleys) aligned over the years. My dad had an MTD that the belt came off every time he crossed through the ditch at an angle (frame twist).

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