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Ronald Hribar

Alternator

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Ronald Hribar
Is there any small tractors that come with alternators. I see where John Deere has two types, one being a nice small 20 amp size but they called it something else and it sounds like it is unregulated. The other one is a 45 amp output regulated that looks like a small GM unit. I am looking for a small unit but it has to be regulated and plan on having the "one wire" type. There is one wire from alternator to battery , regulator is on alternator. You can buy these regulators separately and if there was size proportional alternator available to mount on my single 16 Briggs

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Dutch
Relatively small "one wire" alternators are plentiful. GM has used them for years, and they are inexpensive. They are also used on other cars, including foreign cars. Your challenge will be how to drive one off your tractor. Be creative..... it doesn't need to be driven off the engine, and it doesn't have to run all the time.

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HubbardRA
I have a friend who has done this on three tractors. If you can find a pulley to drive the belt and a place to mount the alternator, then you can hook up this type of system. You will want to make sure that the pulley that is hooked to the engine that will drive the belt to the alternator is nearly the same size as the one on the car that it came off of so that it charges at the normal tractor operating speeds.

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Ronald Hribar
I was thinking of using pulley off from S/G on alternator and putting it in place Of S/G. But was wondering if anyone used something as original equipment with possibly diesel engine that did not need source for ignition

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BLT
The older Delco 10 DN and later 10 SI 27 to 60 amp 12V and 24V alternators require a sensing voltage or field current to get them going. These were the popular ones of the 70's. Where I work we still use them (12V-42A) on our mechanical injected engine as the only need is to keep the batteries charged. We just use a fuel pressure switch to close when the engine starts. There's our current and when the engine stops the switch opens and no current. If you don't cut the current , you'll drain the battery in less then a day.

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Roy
Ronald, Watch your pulley sizes. If driven from the S/G engine pulley the alternator speed will be very high (as is the S/G speed) due to the large pulley diameter on the engine. You may want to consider a large diameter alternator pulley or driving it from another location. The alternator rpm will be whatever the driving pulley rpm is times the pulley size ratio between the driver and the alternator. Example: If the engine pulley is 12" dia. and the alternator driven pulley is 4" the alternator speed will be 3 times engine speed. At 3000 engine rpm that is 9000 alternator rpm. My thoughts,

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BLT
quote:
Originally posted by Roy
Ronald, Watch your pulley sizes. If driven from the S/G engine pulley the alternator speed will be very high (as is the S/G speed) due to the large pulley diameter on the engine. You may want to consider a large diameter alternator pulley or driving it from another location. The alternator rpm will be whatever the driving pulley rpm is times the pulley size ratio between the driver and the alternator. Example: If the engine pulley is 12" dia. and the alternator driven pulley is 4" the alternator speed will be 3 times engine speed. At 3000 engine rpm that is 9000 alternator rpm. My thoughts,
You'll be OK as the small frame alternators will go in excees of 9000 RPM.

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Ronald Hribar
Will they survive at 10,800? And the switch that I run the alternator with should be rated at 45 amps? Is there an unused terminal on the ignition switch that I could use? Or would light switch work as flywheel would provide power for ignition? I was told #10 wire between alternator and battery is this heavy enough? I had originally had just thought of running one wire directly to battery terminal, and then switch to a battery /coil combination for the ignition system.I will need a lot of battery power for 4 halogen headlights and extra lights on cab, electric lift.electric clutches electric spout actuator, electric salt or fertilizer spreader. any opinions welcomed.

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HubbardRA
Normally the engine pulley on a car is at least twice the diameter of the alternator pulley. Car engines can turn 6000+ RPM meaning that the alternator is capable of turning 12000 or more, so I'd say that you can replace the starter-generator with one and use the original pulley on the alternator with the pulley on the tractor engine. A one wire alternator should not need to be switched. A switch is required with an external voltage that requires switched power to excite the field coils. I think you can wire a one-wire unit as you stated above. Your switch should be relatively heavy, but 45amps is not required because all external loads except ignition should be off when starting, and should be turned off before shutting down the engine. Current rating of a switch is based on switching at full load.

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Dutch
quote:
Originally posted by HubbardRA
Normally the engine pulley on a car is at least twice the diameter of the alternator pulley. Car engines can turn 6000+ RPM meaning that the alternator is capable of turning 12000 or more, so I'd say that you can replace the starter-generator with one and use the original pulley on the alternator with the pulley on the tractor engine. A one wire alternator should not need to be switched. A switch is required with an external voltage that requires switched power to excite the field coils. I think you can wire a one-wire unit as you stated above. Your switch should be relatively heavy, but 45amps is not required because all external loads except ignition should be off when starting, and should be turned off before shutting down the engine. Current rating of a switch is based on switching at full load.
Rod, Unless Ron's 16 B&S has an independent starter, assuming an alternator would withstand the constant high RPMs, what would be used to start the engine if the S/G was replaced by an alternator?

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Dutch
quote:
Originally posted by Ronald Hribar
Will they survive at 10,800? And the switch that I run the alternator with should be rated at 45 amps? Is there an unused terminal on the ignition switch that I could use? Or would light switch work as flywheel would provide power for ignition? I was told #10 wire between alternator and battery is this heavy enough? I had originally had just thought of running one wire directly to battery terminal, and then switch to a battery /coil combination for the ignition system.I will need a lot of battery power for 4 halogen headlights and extra lights on cab, electric lift.electric clutches electric spout actuator, electric salt or fertilizer spreader. any opinions welcomed.
Ron, The OEM setup should be enough for the electric lift and spout rotator. If I was planning on mounting all sorts of high powered lights, a salt spreader, etc., I think I'd design a "power pack" that mounted on the rear and was powered by the rear PTO. The "power pack" could consist of a large battery and alternator completely independent from the tractor's electrical system. Such a "power pack" could also be used for jump starting cars, and even be used for light duty emergency 110 volt AC home power by installing an inverter.

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Ronald Hribar
i am switching to ring gear starter, The S/G reminds me of the old 6 volt systems on chevy sixes if you could get it to turn over even once it would start, but sometimes it just would not turn over

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HubbardRA
Dutch, Ron was talking about using a flywheel pulley from a starter-generator tractor with an engine that used a bendix type starter. He had calculated 10800 rpm at max engine speed on the tractor, and I was saying that on most cars because of the size of the pulley on the harmonic balancer vs. the size of the pulley on the alternator, the alternators will turn over 12000 rpm on the cars when the engines are revved to max speed. All I was saying that it should work. I have three cars that will turn 6000 rpm and the pulley ratio is at least 2:1. If it were me, I would try to use a pulley the same size as the harmonic balancer on an automobile just to be safe. If I hooked it up the way Ron wants to, then I would be hesitant to run WOT for long periods of time. Very seldom do I run my engines at 3600 rpm. My normal operating speeds are about 2500-2800 rpm.

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thedaddycat
Since the exact tractor isn't specified, how about driving it from the hydro lift drive pulley and fit the alternator where the hydro would be? Could you get different pulleys to fit the alternator so you could adjust the ratio as needed?

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Ronald Hribar
Was talking about 3314 and/or 3416 hence no spot for Hydro, although it probably would be possible to mount alternator in similiar location. was going to try to mount hydraulic pump in that area. Now i have acquired a 7116H with hydro lift. Is there there room on that model? I have not seen tractor yet

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fireballv8
look at the older, small permanent magnet types on the kubotas, they are not 1 wire, but you could probably adapt any voltage regulator to it, go to the local starter rebuild shop, they will usually help you figure out how to wire it. You can get them off ebay sometimes, look at Keller Bros, motors on the net, they have that cheapest new parts I have seen, you might get a new one cheap., they are so small, they have very little drag on a motor.

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BLT
quote:
Originally posted by Ronald Hribar
Was talking about 3314 and/or 3416 hence no spot for Hydro, although it probably would be possible to mount alternator in similiar location. was going to try to mount hydraulic pump in that area. Now i have acquired a 7116H with hydro lift. Is there there room on that model? I have not seen tractor yet
I guess before you start planning on an alternate source of charging, it might be wise to see what you all want to do with the tractor to see if there is a spot to drive an alternator.

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