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stevenj

Rear Rim Widths

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stevenj
I checked the Tire & Rim Association Handbook to find out what the "Design Rim Width" is for the 23x8.50-12, 23x9.50-12, & 23x10.50-12 tires. The 23x8.50-12 & 23x9.50-12 have a "Design Rim Width" of 7.0 inches. The 23x10.50-12 has a "Design Rim Width" of 8.50 inches, however, 7.0" rim widths are allowed. I checked my B-210 and 17 hp GTH-L Sovereign and both are fitted with 7.0" wide rims. I did a check of several brand new Simplicity tractors at the dealer that were fitted with 23x10.50-12 tires and all had 7.0" wide rims. I've also checked several other brands of tractors at the big box stores and they also had 7.0" wide rims with 23x10.5-12 tires. I've noticed that all the 23x10.5-12 turf tires that are mounted on a 7.0" wide rim have quite a bit of crown to the tire tread, but honestly, I'm not sure it would be that different if they were mounted to a 8.5" rim. The Carlisle turf tires have quite a bit of crown when they are brand new and not mounted on a wheel. Most of the new tractors are fitted with the Carlisle 23x10.50-12 turf tires, but I did see a Simplicity that was fitted with Kenda 23x10.50-12 turf tire and the Kenda was about 22.5" diameter, whereas the Carlisle were closer to 21" diameter. The part number for the rear wheels for the B-210 & 17 hp GTH-L Sovereign are NLA but cross reference to a newer number (1709971) that is the same tire used on the last model year Sovereign which I believe to also be 7.0" wide and is painted Metallic Gray. Did Simplicity offer a 12x8.5 rim and does anyone know the part number or model it was used on? If I want to use the 7.0" wide rims, should I use 23x8.50-12 ag lug tires or 23x10.50-12 ag lug tires? Any thoughts???

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Kent
Don't know if they measure 8.5" but, yes, they offered wider wheels at least back into the late 1960s on some of the Sovereign (12HP) machines... These tractors also came with the wider front tires (unless the dealer changed them at the customer's request). Don't know when they might have changed to the 7" wheels for all tractors... since that was in the running-board era...

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PatRarick
I would use 23x8.50-12 lug tires on a 7" rim. Tried 10.50's and they had too much of a crown for my liking. The 3112's had wide rims. Can't recall for sure, but I believe they were 11" wide. The 10.50's look great on them. Pat

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TimJr
I don't have the numbers here, but check out the Sunstar wheels - they came with 26X12-12 tires as an option. Seems like those were at least 8.5" wide wheels. Carlisle ag 23x10.5's look great on 8.5" wheels. Had to steal mine off of green and yellow tractor and repaint them though... I don't think my 7016 will ever know - it can't read. Just be sure to check the backspacing - especially on the 6 speeds - the pulleys stick way out there - variables and shuttles might have the same clearance troubles. But seriously - if you don't care what brand the wheels originally were, go see a Deere dealer and ask about wheels for a 23hp Sabre garden tractor - they came with pretty wide wheels for their 24X12-12 turfs, and they only list at about $70 each or so. I just remember they were way cheaper than Simplicity if original doesn't matter.

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HubbardRA
I have run 23x10.5x12 tires on 7 inch rims before. My current set is on 10.5 inch wide rims and I like the way the tires set much better. The tread is flatter and you can run higher air pressure. I also have some 26x12x12 tires and they are mounted on 11.5 inch rims. I like the rims at least as wide as the tread of the tires. By the way, I widened all of my rims when tractor pulling. These sizes are not stock.

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UCD
10.50 tire mounted on a 7in wheel tread is rounded 10.50 Carlisle mounted on a 8.5in wheel tread is flat 23x10.50X12 on 7in wheels On Simplicity 7790


23x10.50X12 Carlisle on 8.5in wheels on Allis Chalmers HB-116 [img]]/club2/attach/UCD/Tire10.5On8.5inWheel.JPG[/img]

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MPH
Tires are an interesting beast. The 10.5 Carlisle lugs I have on 8.5 rims look pretty flat. If I lay a sq across the rim they curl down 5/8's at the outter edge. They measure 10.5 inches lug to lug. The 10.5 turfs on the 3314 have 1 3/8 inch drop, mounted on 7.5 rims. The tread only measures 9 inches on them. I run 8lbs in the lugs, addmittly, I have no clue whats in the turfs, project yet untouched.

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stevenj
GREAT INFO AND PICTURES!!! Thanks. Looks like I need to start looking for a set of 8.5" rims or 10.5 inch rims. I wish there was some way to determine which models had which rim width and what the backspacing is. I'll have to take TimJr's suggestion and look at the Sunstar. I've been looking at several used wheels and all have been 7" rims and all have had different backspacing. When you widened the wheels did you split the additional width and keep the wheel offset the same (dimension between wheel mounting face and centerline of rim) or did you leave the inboard bead seat to wheel mounting face dimension stock and "simply" move the outboard bead seat, thus increasing the rear track width?

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HubbardRA
On the wheels pictured, since they were only 6 inch rims, I turned them inward and then did the widening to the outside. I wanted to keep the wheels as close together as possible. If you will be using the rear PTO for a tiller or other powered rear attachment, you will need to keep the inner spacing stock and put the additional width to the outside. When I welded the band into mine, I did an overlap joint, not a butt joint. Did all the welding so that it ended up inside the tire. If you look closely at my wheel, the silver rim is the outer part of the original wheel, and the red section is the insert. You can see the edge of the inner piece of the original wheel just at the front of the wheel face. I put a piece of masking tape around the inside of the wheel as a straight edge and cut the pieces apart with a jig saw. Then I cut the insert piece from a piece of flat metal. Took it to a local machine shop and had the pieces rolled into a ring. I made the pieces longer than needed. Clamped them around the original wheel pieces with long screw clamps, actually three put together to make each one of the two large ones. I marked where to cut the overlapping ends of the insert. Cut it to fit, clamped the insert around the rim pieces, trued the width all around with a ruler, tack welded the pieces, removed the screw clamps, then burned nearly 5 feet of weld onto each wheel. A lot of welding in this operation.

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