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Tips for pulling an engine

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I believe I've hit a wall on getting a spark on a 23D. I believe I need to change the magneto and I want to test this before putting it back in the tractor. Does anyone have any tips on how they pull an engine? I am thinking of devising something where I can keep the engine close to the frame so I can use the regulator battery setup without disassembling these completely off the tractor. I bet some folks have a test rig on their bench, I guess that would be easy too. I've already been tipped that I should pull the drive shaft off the universal because if I drop the bolts on the flywheel inside, that can cause difficulties. Also if anyone has any tests which can avoid me pulling the engine, let me know. I bought all new points, condensor, plug and double reinspected all the wires. My simplicity dealer advised me I am pretty much at the end and it's about time to pull the engine. He said B&S has not given any test specs for testing the magneto.

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toad270
what tractor is this in? it sounds like a B10 or lanlord I think. I pulled mine out by hand. or you could rig up a rope block and tackle as far as testing youcould use jumper wires to extend the ones you need

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Guest
It's a 101. I think it's about 4 bolts to take off the grill, two to take off the driveshaft, 4 on the engine?, and then the carb connections and the wires to the starter. I was thinking of putting it on some boards mounted in front of the frame and pretty much sliding it forward. I know I can move this by hand because I have a 23D sitting on the floor which I am hoping I can get the magneto out of. That's why I want to get this running off the frame before I remount it. So ideas would be great. Also any last minute suggestions before I start pulling this.

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ehertzfeld
quote:
Originally posted by dogboy
Have you checked the coil with a meter? on page #2 theres a post "no spark",with info on how to test it.
That was my post. It was a great help. I thought my coil was bad but after testing it I found out it was just a bad ground through the tractor. I would look at my post for the amounts. Elon

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Guest
Yes, I've just compared the coils between a 23D-FD and 23D; the resistance was exactly the same (I think 5.64mOhms - it could have been kOhms). The fact is they were the same and thus the coil should not be the problem; good suggestion. Ok, here is where I am at: I've changed everything to new on the outside of the engine, points, condensor, plug. I've inspected all the wires and did an ohms test between the two engines. I had a friend over and we tried to dial in the points while running. I ran an ohm meter on the points alone to see these were open and going to ground while turning the engine manually. I added in the condensor and noticed how the charging of the capacitor (condensor) did seem to have a resistance then it went to closed (charged I believe); I did not figure out the pattern, but I believe the condensor to be working because it's new. Then I added in the coil primary wire and I was not able to predict when it was opening closing. I just assumed that with all the wires connected the results would be too confusing. Note, I've left out the ignition switch which I now understand only shorts out the plug. Ultimately I still have no spark. My friend and the Simplicity dealer both believe it's time to pull the motor and check for rust on the flywheel. I don't understand why rust on the flywheel might stop the magneto from working. Does that sound possible? Again any last minute suggestions before I pull the motor would be great. Thank you all. ehertzfeld, I read your post at "http://www.simpletractors.com/club2/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=30144", I actually started wiring up the points and condensor in this post "http://www.simpletractors.com/club2/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=30250". Thank you.

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ReedS
It's not nessecary to jump out to the regulator for the s/g to function as a starter. The important part is to label your wires as you remove them. What I have done is to mount the engine on 2x4's, run a long fuel from a tractor and use jumper cables for ground and 12+. Momentarily touch the hot lead to the A term on the s/g (the one with the heavy wire) that should crank the eng over.

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sandyhillbill
this is a very rare occurance but I have seen flywheels lose their magnetisim and it will not have any spark. very easy to check with any thing metal if you can get to the magnet on the flywheel. Good luck

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tractormike
The rust on the flywheel and armature can cause a no sprk problem. I have seen several tillers that were tossed out because of a "bad engine" only to clean up the flywheel and armature and have them run again.

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JCS
How can you mess wit the points when the motor is running? I got a B-1 motor rebuild at shop and while it started in warm shop on first/second pull in real life if takes multiple rope cranks (battery dead)

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Guest
We were adjusting the points while cranking the engine. Spark plug out and no gas flow. I think I am set with pulling the engine. I am going to convience myself I want to clean the frame and start restoring this tractor. Paint the engine shroud and make this all spankin new looking. Then again, if I could get this to spark without... I'd be using this tractor.

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thedaddycat
Well, here's one thing you might try......... Go to NAPA and get "the chip" to replace the points and all that. If the other end(under flywheel) is good, the chip will give you spark. I have three of these, one was on the Big Ten when I got it and I bought the other two. I will use one of them for nothing but a test tool when looking at ignition problems. They're about $15 each. Second test is to get an automotive type coil and wire it to the points. This removes everything from the circuit except the points. You will need a good battery for this one to work. If it fires with this one, you need to look at your ignition system or make the conversion permanent. Now for the hard part...... You will have to do searches and look for the information yourself. There are diagrams, instructions, and a host of other good stuff out there for you to find. Many here will help guide you in the right direction, but you must attain tractor Nirvana on your own Grassmower...... lol BTW, pulling the engine isn't really that hard....... http://www.simpletractors.com/club2/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=9147&SearchTerms=Mr.+Briggs

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Guest
DaddyCat...That was a great reference, thanks. I don't think I'm going that far because I am going to keep my machine fairly stock, but I liked it. Besides, I don't have all the tools and skills to do what you did.

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powerking_one
Michael/All: A magneto, as it applies to a gasoline engine, is a "sub-system" of components. It is comprised of: breaker points & condenser (or a solid state primary ignition trigger device), a high-voltage coil(which may contain the primary coil)encasing a magnetic core, and a rotating magnet assembly. So when one says they have a "bad" magneto, it is quite ambigous as to what component they are talking about. Semantically, Tom(PK)

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Guest
Tom, Thanks. This is a whole learning thing for me. So anyone who has pulled engines, I know I can lift and struggle with this, but instead of breaking my back I am thinking of a come-along over a beam in my garage. How has you all either wrapped a rope or chain onto the engine? The 23D I've already lifted does not have a carb or starter, so these extra parts will make this heavier.

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powerking_one
Michael, At least on larger heavier engines like in a Pow'R'Max, the service manual suggests using a long enough V-belt around both ends of the crankshaft which forms a U-shaped cradle to attach a lifting hook to. Wrap it around the S/G engine pulley and the PTO end. Just watch that the center of gravity is stable when lifting. Alternately, obatin or fabricate an L-bracket bolted through a couple of the headbolts and make a hole in it big enough for the lifting hook. Tom(PK)

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