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Roy

Needle & Seat

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Roy
Ok gang, Any two-piece Flo-Jet experts out there? On my B-1 B & S Model 19 engine the needle & seat in the carburetor was leaking. It had a Viton tipped needle in it.The carb kit has steel tip needle and an aluminum needle that is supposed to seat on a elastomer insert that goes in the seat in the top half of the carburetor. Problem is the insert seems too small in diameter to fit the brass seat in the carb. The kit also has a new seat that is supposed to screw into the carb. The seat in the carb has internal threads (maybe to screw a bolt into to use as a puller?) but the new seat does not. Looks like I may need a press-in seat but the kit does not contain one. I put the steel tip needle in and left the original seat in. Tractor started and ran good. Made one trip around the yard and the needle and seat started leaking again so I will have to try again. This brings up some questions. Is a new Viton tipped needle available? How does the original seat come out (pressed or screwed in)? Will the elastomer seat work if it is a loose fit in the seat? Are new press-in seats available? I also observed that the spring clip for the needle looks like it might be able to keep the needle from closing completely as the end of the it protrudes past the edge of the seat OD. Anyone know if this could be part of the problem? What happens if I leave the spring clip off? The Briggs Manual says engines with fuel pumps do not use the clip but my engine does not have a fuel pump. The engine is a Model 19, Type 706055, S.N. 662916. The carb kit I bought is P.N. 394693. I'm open to ideas. I need to get the carb fixed so I can resume tilling the garden. Thanks,

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BLT
Roy for what it is worth and then be corrected, try this. With the viton tipped needles, they might stick in the hole and the the weight of the float might be heavy enough to open it, hence the clip. And with the fuel pump, that little pressure generated is enough to open it and no clip is required. I have always hated them and am sure a couple of them are still in orbit because I could never find them.

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Al
Roy, I believe the 681 kit has 2 needles and one "rubber" seat. One needle should have a Viton tip. It is used directly on the brass seat. The steel needle is used with the soft seat. This way one part number fits a very large range of carbs. I am at the house, but I think the 682 [last 3 pn digits] has the brass seat. To remove the seat, run a 1/4-20 bottom tap into the seat or a 1/4 inch threadforming screw into the seat. Then either use a 1/4 in bolt or the threadformer and a spacer or small deep well socket with a nut and washer on the top of the socket. Tightening the nut pulls the seat up into the socket or spacer. Once it is out press in the new seat and put it back together. If the rubber seat is used it goes in with the groove against the bottom of the seat. Use a small pin punch approx 1/8" to seat the seat against the bottom. You don't have to press hard, just get it straight and again the bottom. Set the float level and you should be on your way. Good luck, Al Eden

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BigSix
Roy: I'm glad you asked those questions. I've got two Flo-Jets to rebuild, and already have the kits, but I'm sure I'd of been there, but for you. Thanks, and thanks to Al, as always! Good luck, Roy. Peter

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PatRarick
I've never seen the pressed in style of seat with internal threads, unless someone has cut them in an attempt to remove the seat. Perhaps that is why you are having trouble with the viton seat. Al is correct as to the part numbers. Part number 394681 has a viton tipped needle, an aluminum needle, a viton seat, and the clip to hold either needle to the float. 394682 has the pressed in seat, the needle, and the clip. One suggestion. Sometimes it is NOT the float needle that is leaking. The main jet seals the bottom of the carb bowl. Corrosion in that area of the carb body, or a piece of foriegn material, can prevent a proper seal between the jet and carb body. Fuel will seep into the carb throat and drip, just like a leaking float. The sealing area is the tapered portion of the jet where the thin tube meets the threaded portion. There are too methods to seal this area. The easiest is to purchase kit #391413. This kit is actually for repairing warped carbs or tanks on the small, vertical shaft engines. It contains 10 small roll pins, (which you will not need), and ten teflon washers. These washers will serve as gaskets. Fit one or two teflon washers over the small end of the jet and CAREFULLY work them down to the sealing area. If you stretch or tear them, it can prevent a seal. Install the jet as usual. The other method is to lap the sealing surface in the carb. Grind or file the threads from the old jet. Apply valve grinding compound to the sealing surface of the jet. Insert the jet into the carb. Using a screwdriver, lap the sealing area much like lapping the valves. Make sure you clean the carb thoroughly after using this method. Pat

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Roy
Al/Pat, I may have been had. The kit I bought had been opened. It did not have Viton tipped needle in it. Only the steel tip and aluminum needles. The carb is in pretty good shape so I think the main jet should be seating/sealing but will look at it. For a long time the carb would only leak when trying to start the engine. Then it would be OK until the next time I started it. Yesterday it began leaking and flooding the engine out while it was running. Will have another go at the carb and see what happens. Thanks for the tips,

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HubbardRA
Roy, Several times I have taken the viton tipped needles and refurbished them. Take a piece of fine sandpaper and hold it between your fingers around the viton tip. Turn the needle with the other hand until the surface is smooth (sharpened) and the groove is gone. I have also used drill bits to resurface the brass seats. Call me a cheapskate if you like, but these tricks have worked for me.

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Roy
Rod, No sense in spending money if you don't have to. I think is a question of time vs money. When I have the time I'll expend the time to save money. When time is short, money is quicker, and I can afford it, I will take the expensive quick method. Went back to the dealers today and they gave me the missing Viton needle. Would not have bought a complete kit if I had known the needles were available. Live & learn. But, the kit may come in useful some day since I have a 700 & 725 in addition to the B-1. Thanks for the tip,

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Roy
I put the elastomer seat and aluminum needle in today. Also ground a screwdriver down on the shaft so I could tighten the main jet securely. After reassembly and adjusting the idle speed, idle jet, & main jet it seems to be OK. Will find out when it quits raining and I can run it longer. Oddly, I had to turn the main jet in (leaner) quite a bit from the initial 1.5 turns out to make it run right. More later only if it fails (floods) again.

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