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richp

Car alternator add on

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richp
From sitting for 15 years my 7014s had plenty of time to get abused by generations of local mice. The coil and under flywheel alternator where useless from these pesky rodents. I do like the gear starter and how it whips the motor over, so I figure I would run one of my old ford truck alternators roughly where the old starter generator was located. I fabed up a bracket to bolt to the existing holes and ran the pulley off of an old s/g so pulley speed would be same. One point is the 7014 comes with a flywheel pulley so that wasn't a problem. I had to spend $10 bucks on a voltage regulator, but in the end it all works great and charges at 14.2 volts. I still have to tidy up the wires but all in all I am happy.

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Brent_Baumer
Very nice looking machine. Have you actually mowed with this setup? The reason I ask is I seem to remember someone posting that an automotive type alternator could use on the order 2 or 5 hp, something unbelievable to me. I can't remember now what they said for sure but made it sound like not such a good idea due to the power to spin it when it is charging. Guess you could dispell or confirm it depending on engine performance now vs. before the mod. Again, very nice looking tractor. Thanks for sharing. Brent

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MPH
Now thats the kind of creative thinking I like too see. If I ever get this big seeder mounted to one of the tractors been thinking I need to do that also instead of taxing the S/G with the load of the 12 volt spreader motor on it. Glad to see it can be made to work.

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Ronald Hribar
I have had the pieces for these conversion for a long time. My alternator from one of those green things has built in regulator. Then i got switched from Briggs single to Kohler twin. Still looking to mount that on Kohler, so that i can take care of extra lights and clutchesm spout actuators. One concern i had was it going to turn too fast. second does it have to turn in orginal direction. Great job. Busy mounting my loader and strenghtening frame between front and rear of tractor. But that is next on list.I don't believe it will dreaw a great amount of HP unless you have a lot going on at same time. Like lights on cab, snout actuator and trying to blow heavy snow. Mowing should be piece of cake.

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BLT
quote:
Originally posted by Brent_Baumer
Very nice looking machine. Have you actually mowed with this setup? The reason I ask is I seem to remember someone posting that an automotive type alternator could use on the order 2 or 5 hp, something unbelievable to me. I can't remember now what they said for sure but made it sound like not such a good idea due to the power to spin it when it is charging. Guess you could dispell or confirm it depending on engine performance now vs. before the mod. Again, very nice looking tractor. Thanks for sharing. Brent
Brent, you are correct about a high horsepower draw, 40-60 amps nominal on automotive alternators versus 6-15 amps nominal on most air cooled engines. But if the battery is up to snuff, that HP demand diminishes quickly as it only has to replace those few amps to start the engine and a trickle to power an igition coil if you have one. Even if you need it to power an electric mower clutch, the horsepower required should not impede the over tractor performance.

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Roy
Slick looking job. I like the idea given that alternators are far superior to generators. I especially like the idea of getting the voltage regulator on the engine and out from behind the battery inside the dash cowl.

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KSever
Great idea! I was wondering if my Kohler was going to be able to handle all the electronic toys I had planned to put on the AC314. I think I am going to go the alternator method myself. Rich, I'd be curious to see a close up of the wiring or maybe a wiring diagram from that conversion. Maybe it could be posted on SimpletrACtors in the do-it-yourself area.

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Salthart
Wanna see how big an HP draw you have ? Take it by an autoparts shop and get them to put a load on it at idle.. With the large pulley for the SG I'd bet it can almost stall the engine at idle... But like someone said above, You only draw a load for a short time so should not be a problem..Nice looking job.

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richp
The chilton book I have says the alternator draws .02 hp to run. Thanks for the compliments, many people on this site from years back know that I am cheap, so spending $10 bucks to get these results makes me happy. I try to be resourcful. Seeing the coil was shot, I put a car coil on there too. I did this on a landlord years ago and was pleased.

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HubbardRA
A friend of mine has done a couple of tractors this way. He uses the Chevy one wire alternator. Nice when you don't have to worry about mounting a voltage regulator and wiring it up. Hope you got that Ford unit wired correctly. I wired one a race car by going from letter on alternator to same letter on voltage regulator. It charged full amperage all of the time and got hot enough to fry eggs on. Had to find the correct wiring diagram to fix the problem. The wiring is a little weird to get it working right. Wish I knew where I put that diagram.

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richp
There's an article I found on the internet yesterday that said the single wire alternators are not so great. They sacrifice ability for ease of install. They said the better unit is the common GM 3 wire with built in regulator. My neigbor also was going to put one on his 49 ford after converting to 12v. The company he delt with said they don't charge at low rpm's. The Ford one I used because I had it. It charges around 13.8 last I checked.

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HubbardRA
Richp, You are right about the one wire units not charging at low rpm. I totally forgot about that. All I was saying about the Ford setup is that if it is not wired correctly, it will charge full current all the time. It will not cut off when the battery charges up to full charge. This could overheat the alternator, blow up the battery, and put excessive load on the tractor. Where did you find the wiring diagram? I know there are two different ways to wire up that alternator, one with an idiot light and one with an amp gauge. With an amp gauge the stator terminal is not used, and with an idiot light the armature terminal is not used. Just can't find the wiring diagram. If I can locate the diagram, I will post it for you just so you can be sure. I'm not sure if Chilton's has that diagram. Is that what you used? I think I have a Hayne's manual for Mustangs. I'll check that tonight. I'm not trying to say that you did anything wrong. I've been there with the Ford alternators, and just didn't want you to find out too late that it wasn't kicking off like I did. A volt gage will not tell if this is happening. You need an amp gage. We had a 60 amp alternator and it stayed at 60 amps whenever it was running. Wouldn't drop down. Only load we had was ignition. This is how we knew something was wrong. Volts were 13.8.

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Salthart
Just to make it clear.. I don't know what you read or what it said but the GM self exciting alternator has to turn high enough RPMs to charge it own fields.. Once this is done it works the SAME as any other GM alternator with built in regulator. And as the last post states, With the ratio of the drive to driven pulleys, getting the unit started is not a problem. Even on diesels where I have installed these its only a matter of hitting the throttle for a second and the unit starts charging. Getting back to the HP draw.. Back in the 80's Mother Earth news had plans for building a home made welder. I built one using a 67 amp alternater driven 1.5 to one with a 5 hp Tecumseh engine. When I'd strike an arc, it would stall the engine. If your book says .02 HP I'm betting it means under no load. Its simple enough to find out. Put it under a heavy load and let us know what happens to the engine RPMs.

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richp
I copied this article from a website: Question: I'm seriously considering getting your harness, for my Bronco, but I was reading through a friend's manual for his Centech Harness and I noticed It states that Centech does not recommend one wire alternators. My Bronco alternator is on the way out right now and I was planning on replacing the alternator with something like a 140A one wire unit with an internal regulator from Powermaster. I was just wondering why you do not recommend one wire units, and if you could point me in the direction of a better alternator to get. I noticed it also mentioned something about the harness being compatible with GM internally regulated alternators. I was wondering if you could clear this up for me because I don't want to jump into anything like this and then be stuck with an alternator I can't use. If you think that the GM alternator is the way to go, can you direct me to a place that sells these alternators that are compatible with the Ford mounting bracket Answer: PowerMaster make a good alternator; however, by design the one wire setup loses voltage as your current requirements go up. This is due to the voltage drop across the wire connecting the alternator to the battery. This is why a wire gets hot as the current through it increases; in fact, if you double the current, the wire will get four times as hot as before. On standard charging systems, the regulator compensates for the voltage drop across the wire by increasing the voltage output of the alternator by measuring the voltage at the battery to maintain the proper battery voltage. For example, if the battery is normally charging at 13.5 volts and the current requirements increase to where you lose .2 volts, the regulator which is monitoring the battery voltage will increase the voltage from the alternator an additional .2 volts to 13.7 volts. At this time, you will have 13.7 volts at the alternator and 13.5 volts at the battery. If you intend to use a one wire alternator, use the largest possible wire thickness to reduce the voltage drop (loss). I suggest at least an 8 gauge with the 140 Amp system. The BR-10A comes with a 10 gauge battery wire for the Ford External regulator alternator normally found in a Bronco. It maybe be best to use a high current version of a Ford alternator by replacing our 10 gauge "battery" wire with a thicker wire and keeping our control wires between the alternator and the external regulator intact. This will eliminate the need for a different alternator mounting bracket (GM Type). In cases where you're going to run a winch, it would be better to run the 140A alternator to a splitter to charge two batteries. Use the second battery to run the winch etc. while the primary battery supplies our harness. Contact NW Power Products for more info on this equipment

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Agricola
Let's do some math.... 12V at 30A = 360Watts. 1hp = 746 Watts. So 30A is a bit less than 1/2 hp. If you consider loss due to heat, let's say it takes 3/4 hp for 30A. If you like the 13.8V or 14V since I don't have a calculator, 30A would still take less than 1 hp. If you charged most batteries at 30 for any length of time, they would surely not like it. So the alternator would taper off to 1 amp or so. At 12V that one amp is 12Watts or 1/60 hp. If you consider the S/G compared to the alternator, you would find much less effiency, more heat. I love the single wire GM alternators. I have used them 100% successfully on machines I have converted. No overheated wires, no over charged batteries, minimally corroded connections (since there are so few). The only problem I have ever occurred was an overrev job and the windings flew out of the armature. As for the comment about the wire getting hot running from the alternator to the battery. If you run over 60 amps to anything, the wire will get hot. I would suggest #12 for 20-30A and #10 for 30-40A. Remember wire size is only related to amperage and not voltage. Just my 2000 mills.

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richp
Rod, If you could get that schematic that would be great. I have it wired like this: field to field, bat on alt. to A terminal on reg. ground on alt to chassis ground, 12volt keyed power to I terminal. So far it seems to work fine. I don't feel any load on motor, but a 16 hp won't labor too much from cutting lawn. The only electrical accesories are external coil, starter and elec. lift.

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HubbardRA
Rich, According to my diagram, with what you have wired already, you should also have the Sta. on the alternator wired to the S on the regulator. I sent you a PM. Reply as I asked and I will send the wiring schematic in jpeg format. It is about 1.4 Mb.

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