Two down and non...- News Flash- BOTH UP & RUNNING

[johnmonkey]

[:0]well my Simp 3410 was running as was my AC710 6 speed. The 710 was not turning over so I charged the batt and still nothing. I jumped the solenoid and it started and ran. Does that mean the switch is bad?? or the solenoid?? or something that I'm not mentioning ?. The 3410 was running last night (I mowed my first grass w/it!) I left the battery hooked up last night and and she started right up this afternoon. I rigged up my leaf vac and went to start the 3410 and nothing but a click out of the solenoid :(!:(!. I hooked up the charger and am charging as we speak. Any help would be appreciated. JH PS (I think it is a case of tractor jealousy. The 710 got its feeling hurt because I was spending too much time on the 3410 ;))

[roma3112]

John When you say you jumped the solenoid, did you 1)supply 12v to the point where the ignition 12v+ enters the solenoid or 2) did you jump across the batt and starter terminals. I would start by making sure you have 12v+ (switched) coming from the ignition to the solenoid. If you have 12v+ at the solenoid and it (solenoid) is grounded properly then most likely you have a bad solenoid. If there is no 12v+ at the ignition to solenoid then you have to work your way back from there to the ignition switch and see where the problem is. hope this helps. john

[johnmonkey]

Update; the 3410 I swaped out the solenoid = no change. I then changed out the starter and presto the 3410 works. The 710 is still down. JH

[johnmonkey]

I Jumped the solenoid from the battery side to the starter side and the 710 started, so what you are saying is that the solenoid is bad? Thanks for the reply. John H

[Ronald Hribar]

Are you sure that you are getting power to turn solenoid on? There could be safeties that are not being made

[johnmonkey]

Thanks, I did make a jumper for the neutral safety switch so that should not be a problem and I inspected the pto safety and did not see and wire damage. JH(I will recheck them though)

[HubbardRA]

John, use a meter, or a 12 light bulb to check the starter circuit. Take the wire from the ignition switch (the small one) loose from the solenoid, connect the meter (set to measure 12V) between the wire and ground, and turn the ignition to start position. You should read 12V. If you use a light bulb, the bulb should burn. This will tell you if power is coming to the solenoid. If no power, then connect directly to the tab on the ignition switch and check. This should tell you where the problem is. If there is power at the end of the wire, then the solenoid is bad. No power on wire but power at switch, the wiring is bad. No power at switch terminal, then ignition switch is bad.

[johnmonkey]

Thanks Rod, I will check that out when I get home. JH

[UCD]

Don't forget about the inline fuse.

[johnmonkey]

Thanks Maynard, I will check it out. I checked for contiuity at the small wire at the top of the solenoid by disconecting it and turning the key and there was no power at the wire. I need to check the switch and or wire and or the fuse next. I will let you know what happens next. JH

[HubbardRA]

John, To see if the solenoid is working, you can use a piece of wire and jump directly from the positive terminal of the battery to the small terminal of the solenoid. If this activates the starter, then the wiring, fuse, or switch is definitely at fault.

[callwill]

Check out what Rokon posted to help me figure out what was wrong with my mom's MTD. It should help you... Go to shop talk & find the subject "electical diagnostic help..." . He did a good job of laying it out to isolate the problem.

[johnmonkey]

Thanks for the help guys I am going out there this morning to to figure out the problem. JH

[Ronald Hribar]

Did you get tractor started? Inquiring minds want to know.

[johnmonkey]

Not yet. I ordered a switch from Jacks small engine yesterday (10.00) so I hope that will solve the problem. The wire was good from the switch to the solenoid and the fuse was good. Thanks for asking, I meant to get it working this past weekend but other stuff got in the way (as usual) JH

[johnmonkey]

I replaced the switch and still nothing . I rechecked the neutral safety and still nothing I checked the pto safety and still nothing. Does this mean the wires????? I am at my wits end on this machine. Any help appreciated (still!!!!!!) John H PS(edit) I almost forgot, I swaped the solenoid out with a known good one. and still nothing :(![V]:(?

[HubbardRA]

John, Make sure there is power going to the ignition switch. I think this wire will be wired to the battery side of the starter solenoid (one of the big terminals). Did you try jumping from the postitive terminal to the small solenoid terminal, to see if the solenoid and starter works?

[johnmonkey]

Hey Rod, I just jumped a wire from the + side of the battery to the small wire on the solenoid and it turned over. So that is definitly the wire all along correct??? JH

[PhanDad]

John, I'd say it's definitely in the wiring somewhere. As Rod suggested, using a 12v test light or voltmeter, see if you've got 12 volts at the "hot" terminal of the ignition switch. If you don't then follow the wire back toward the battery and see where you finally find 12v - there's probably a fuse or circuit breaker and maybe an ammeter in the wiring from the battery. If you've got 12v at the "hot" terminal of the ignition switch, then turn the switch to the "start" position and see if you get 12v on the "start" terminal (you should since it's a new switch). Then follow the wiring thru all the safeties (neutral postion, pto, seat, etc) and when you lose the 12v, then the problem is in the wiring between the two points. It would help to have a wiring diagram of your tractor to see the order in which the various safeties are wired. Good Hunting.

[HubbardRA]

John, You now know that you have a solenoid and starter that works. Now make sure you have power from the battery going into the ignition switch, then trace it through the interconnects, etc.

[KVANDY12]

John did you think about maybe cleaning the battery cables and ternminal on the battery. If they are corroded you won't have enough power going to the switch, but I'm sure you cleaned them. ken

[Ronald Hribar]

Did I read this post correctly and this tractor is composed of parts from several tractors? If you have a keyswitch from a Briggs it will not work on a Kohler. When yo turn the key, the terminal going from the switch to the solenoid has to be energized. Are you testing with a voltmeter? Being that you know that solenod works, this has to be a simple fix. But unles you have tested for voltage, it will never be solved

[johnmonkey]

The main tractor is an AC 710 six speed w/a 10 hp kohler. I used a parts manual for a 710 and ordered the switch from jacks and it is the same switch as the one I removed. What is the best way to actually probe the terminals on the switch? It is a hard reach in there and the wire harness is not long enough to wiggle around and get the probes in there easily. BTW I have a small volt meter and not a test light. The terminals are clean on the battery. I have not had much time this week to jump on it but I hope there is time this weekend to get at it. I will let you know how it works out. JH

[HubbardRA]

John, Look in the parts manual at the dash group. It should have the wire colors and connections. Make sure you have the power wire connected to the battery side of the solenoid. If it already is connected, then probe through the insulation and make sure there is power on the wire and not a bad terminal on the end. Also turn the switch to "on" and check to see if you have voltage to the "+" side of the coil. If not, then there is no power going to the ignition switch.

[johnmonkey]

Andy for president!!! Andy Lehosky (albj93 )came by to buy a tiller that I had for sale and he had a chance to look at the wires on the 710 6 speed. He traced the wires down like Sherlock Holmes. He determined that the wire (black/purple) from the rectifier(the finned thingy that is part of the alternator)was grounded out and there was a loose wire from the solenoid to the fuse. Man am I happy. It was real nice to meet another club member and he brought his two young sons (future mechanics I bet) with him. Thanks a whole lot Andy and if ya have any problems with the tiller or need some help on your tractors let me know. Now both tractors are up and running thanks to this web site and the people that are associated with it- THANK YOU!!!!. John H