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Simplicity314

last ditch effort.

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Simplicity314
Ok, before I get out the shovel, I'd figure I'd ask for help, once again, with troubleshooting my landlord. It starts, runs fine for 10 minutes or so, then stalls. It restarts fine, runs for 7 or 8 seconds, then starts to die like the ignition was shut off, sputter, rev up to normal idle for 7-8 seconds, starts to die, sputters, then kicks back up to idle for 78 seconds....and so on--dosn't stall. Since I bought it: Rebuilt carb. New fuel filter. New poits, condensor, spark plug (s) (constant), new coil, new coil wire. rewired most of machine w/ new 14 ga. wire. New head gasket (real reason for what I thought was a leaking coil :I). Re-adjusted and re-adjusted carb--nothing. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. --jim

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HubbardRA
One other thing you should check is valve clearance. I had both a push mower and a riding mower that did not have enough clearance on the exhaust valve and would do the same thing. A little more clearance and they ran great. Over time the valves will beat themselves deeper into the seat and the clearance will go away. The valve stem gets longer as it gets hot and stops sealing. If it cools a little, it will seal again. On the push mower, it would start and mow one strip across the yard and stop. I could restart and make one strip and it would stop again. Nearly drove me crazy till I found the problem. Riding mower belonged to a friend. It would run 15 min. then it would stop. Check this if you haven't already.

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Simplicity314
Hubbard--yes, this motor is tired! I know the rings and/or valves are worn but good, but I still have decent compression. It was only off a couple pounds or so, as I recall, in the spring. I know, a few pounds is all it takes, but I ran it for a good while both christmas eve day and the day before and it never missed a beat. Maynard--sorry--yes--tried cranking it with the cap tight, loose and completely off. Haven't checked the strainer though, but air cleaner nut on carb drips gas like normal! Thanks gentlemen.

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D-17_Dave
As Rodney said it might be the valves. Does it still have very good compretion when it dies or does it get weak. It still sounds like a fuel starvation problem. If you pull the fuel line off the carb, it should run a full size hose size stream of gas. If it doesn't recheck the fuel things you stated and also see if there is any sediment or trash in the tank that would block the flow of gas. If you pull the choke out when it starts to die will it still try to run? When it starts to die can you idle it down and it run on for another moment? Both of these are signes of fuel starvation. If neither I'd say check the valves for clearence then go into the ign. Don't give up yet, you've got a great support system here. Also don't rule out something just because you've already looked at it. As old as they are some problems are bond to show up at diff times. The answer usually is the simplest thing that gets overlooked. Rarely is it something hard and off the wall like my cam being off time on my 620 or something. Good luck and let us know how you make out.

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Simplicity314
Dave--yes--if I close the choke she does hang on a bit longer (probably souldda' mentioned that!). If I close the throttle it dies anyway, but idles much smoother when I restart at a low throtlle. Okay, strainer is the first matter of business then. Now only if this wind would die down! (Of course, the tractor has to quit in the middle of the yard. It couldn't die in the trailer or shed or anything. That would be too easy!) Thanks again.

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MPH
Not sure what you put on for a fuel filter, but ai once used a neat, small ceramic one for autos on the 4040 that gave me the same fits. Kept over looking it as a problem because it was new, after replacing it with a see through ugly plastic one the problem went away. Valve stems were the only reason my Landlord wouldn't run for the guy I got it from. After I shortten them up, its been a hard working, no oiol butnning model 23D.

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ReedS
quote:
(Of course, the tractor has to quit in the middle of the yard. It couldn't die in the trailer or shed or anything. That would be too easy!)
This why these tractors love to have siblings around.:p;) I always have at least one as a back up. I realize that I'm not directly helping to find the problem but rather making an observation. Just to add my 2c I too would venture to guess fuel but have you checked your batt to see if it"s fully charged and wether or not the charging system is working properly since low voltage can cause problems with an external coil. Good luck!

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AC917Hydro
My Kohler Twin did the same thing. The problem was the fuel pump. Once I bypassed it and let it run on gravity, it worked fine. I'm not sure if your engine has a pump like mine but it might be worth a shot... Good luck!:)

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dhardin
Good chance its the gas cap vent or maybe the float is sticking. i had one do that to me after 3 or 4 time apart adjusting it. finlly i just taped on the lower bowl and it started working. Go figure. also had one that the flot would not shut off the gas also, just a few taps and it wworked. good luck....

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HubbardRA
With too small a valve clearance, you will probably have good compression when the engine is cold, but will not have good compression when the valves heat up and get a little longer. An engine with low compression will run better with a rich mixture (choked). If it is an exhaust valve that is too tight, then no matter what you do to anything else, the compression is going to go away when the valve gets hot and the stem expands. This is why there is clearance in the valves to start with.

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richp
My 64 Landlord did the same thing. I was always fighting rust on the tank bottom. I used to keep the tractor outside and rain must have gotten in the tank. I would clog filters in a half hour. Finally I welded a new bottom on the tank and never a problem again. I also stopped storing outside.

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Conrad
If it runs a little longer before it dies, with the choke closed, check the fuel pipe in the carb.If it does not seat tightly the fuel will leak around like a stuck float and flood the engine. Does not always produce a noticable black smoke. Usually the threads in the carb. get corroded and the pipe gets tight but does not seal. Use a 5/16x32 bottom tap to clean them out and retry. Closing the choke completely stops all the air and matches the fuel leak to run the engine. As always free advice is worth what it costs. Luck, Conrad

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Simplicity314
Thanks everyone. The latest advice steered me to look at the fuel delivery. I have a plastic gas tank that will fit in the compartment. Wednesday, when it warms up, I'm going to switch it over and de-rust and coat the inside of the orig. tank. In febuary or early march I'm going to have valves and cylinder done and rebuild it in time to get my garden ready, so I'm not going to deal with the valves until then. Reed: No chains on the Murray and I have hilly property, and the broadmoors I got recently got aren't running yet, even if I did have chains for them. But it will have siblings soon, I hope. I'm taking advantage of the warm week, and I have it off from work, for the most part.

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Simplicity314
Ken--the gas is fresh. Could very well be water, especially with all the radical temperature changes causing condensation. The tank on there is the original metal, which fare far better than plastic when it comes to condensation. Needless to say, rust is the usual culprit with metal tanks. We'll see. If I have the same symptoms w/ the new tank then I'm going to pull the motor later in the week and bring it in for a valve job and honing. Never did a valve job myself, but I think I'll use a 250000 to learn, rather than possibly ruin my 23D!

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MPH
To check your valve clearence just to see if its your problem all you have to do is pull the little plate off that is behind the carb, then you can get to the valve stems with a feeler gauge. It be simple enough to do just to know if that is your contributing problem.

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Simplicity314
Thanks Marty. Well, [sigh], the thing is running. Don't ask me how. Last night, when I was trying to get her going, I noticed the battery was wearing down. Went out today to see if it was dead or weak to bring in and put on the charger. Hit the starter and she fires up on half a crank, 20-something degrees outside with no choke. I waited for it to die. 15 minutes later, it was still running strong and didn't so much as burp the whole time. It figures. After all the snow is cleared by hand...Whuddaya know! I think it's safe to say it was a scale from the gas tank that worked its way loose. Tempermental lil' thing! The tank is going to be replaced anyway and the metal one cleaned and coated. Thanks a million, again, everyone!

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