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To: Al Eden


landlord2110

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Roy I GIVE UP!!!!!!!!! Do a search for camshaft lobe, points, lobe, Under al's user name. You can find it just as fast as anyone else.
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Al's response in the post below discusses some cam lobe wear. It does not mention cam end thrust. http://www.simpletractors.com/club2/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=32201&SearchTerms=B,&,S,points This is another interesting lesson on ignition systems (although it is geared toward Kohler pulling engines). http://members.aol.com/pullingtractor/ignition.htm
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Hi, I didn't do an article on camshaft wear, but I did talk about it in a post abort 3 years ago. I was talking about my old Squire/Landlord 10. After mowing a 26 acre hilly cemetary and a ton of othe mowing for 4 years, got to the place when I was mowing and would come up a steep bank and turn around and go down right on the turn it would occasionally die. I thought it was a fuel problem for a long time. I used to carry a cut off wrench in my pocket and would unscrew the main jet assy and let some gas and water run out and go again. Later I discovered that the bump on the cam where the point plunger rubs and was really worn. It seems that camshaft also had some end play and when I would turn occasionally the cam would move end wise enough to affect the point setting, the plunger would move out of the groove and up on the bump. Would only do it maybe once or twice a day. I put a new cam in it and never had the problem after. I also haven't seen cams worn that bad or that much end play since. HOwever I still had problems with water in the fuel, but the jet drain always fixed that. If the cam has the plunger bump worn, forget about setting the points by gap, and set them by running the engine wide open and adjust them in until it affects the running slightly, then out the same and set them half way in between. It should run fine that way. If you set them by gap the timing will be off when the cam is severely worn. On Kohlers we NEVER set the points by gap. We use a test light on and connect it from the battery to the points ans set the points so the light goes out EXACTLY when the S mark on the flywheel is lined with the mark through the timing hole. When doing this always back the flywheel back about 1/4 turn and come at them clockwise. If you try to go back and forth you will never get them set because of the slack in the timing gears. Back to the Briggs. One thing on the 19 and 23s the governed speed was 3600. The 2434xx 10 hp was 4000 and the rest 326xxx etc were 3600. Hope this is what you were looking for. Remember it is free, value accordingly. Good luck, Al Eden
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Thanks AL, my briggs 243 model was bothering on level ground. that sounds like a good idea, setting points with engine running.
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Kent, Basically no. There are no timing marks on the Briggs. Back in the early 80s when the gas turned to crap, I did a bunch of work on a Briggs that would "ping" detonate. I used a dial indicator to measure and I can't remember now what the spark advance was, it kind of seems like it was around 20 degrees. If we knew what it should be we could use a cylinder stop and a degree wheel to find top center and then then provide a spark or fire mark. From then on it could be done the same way. I ended reworking the head and solved the problem. As I remember, gas kind of got REALLY bad and then came back a little. We probably removed metal from about 5 Kohler 16 hp heads and this one Briggs head to eliminate the detonation on these engines when using them under load for about an hour in July heat. You can not believe how loud detonation is in an air cooled engine that doesn't have a water jacket around the cylinder that absorbs the noise. The next yr and since we have not seen the problem. Bout made me cry to lower the compression after my old 348 chev with the 11:1 pistons and 3 2 barrels and our 1600 lb 283 fuel injected 11 to 1 small block competition coupe we won the World Series of Drag Racing, B Competition Coupe class and Middle Elimator for the meet. This just counterdicts every vibe I have in my body. Al
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With my B/S 10 HP 243431 engine and also my 13 Hp B/S, I have always set the points at WOT. Figured that screw was there for a reason. I was glad to hear the explanation of the Kohler point setting. I've never felt like the Kohlers I have had were quite right. Gonna try that on the K321 when I get the time.
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Kent,Al, et al: Actually there are timing marks on the big 10-16hp cast iron B&S singles. There are arrows on the coil mounting bracket and the aluminum pinned magnet portion of the flywheel. I used these marks to hard reference my Magnatron/flywheel magnet repolarizing testing which was posted about 2 years ago. Granted, with the engine in tractor, they are totally impossible to access. Timing for a typical 3,600 RPM rated L-head engine is in the 18-22 degree BTDC range. Tom(PK)
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Hi, Regarding timing on these flatheads about 20 degrees gets it most of the time. Back around 58 to 61 in the old Chevrolet race engines. In the my 348 We put a stop in the distributer advance and ground the cams on the advance weights and changed the advance springs. The 348 liked 12 degrees initial, then we "recurved" the distributor to give total of about 32 degrees at 2800 and 36 about 3800 and 41 about 4000 with the stop at 41 degrees where it stayed on out to 7000. On the 283 with the fool infection in the coupe we ran a fish hook curve and it liked a curve about like the 348 up to 5000 where we moved it up to about 43 degrees and 44 at 6000 and bending it back to 42 from 7500 to about 8500. We shifted it at 8500. That much advance would unscrew the flywheel on a Briggs, do you reckon? So much for this valueless trivia. I quess when you get old, you kind of look back at things that were exciting learning experiences back then. Al Eden
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I seem to be getting different readings when I check points. My question is how many times do you check the point opening to make one complete cycle- does the lobe hit the camshaft once or more than that?
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Roy, The Cam opens the points once for each 2 turns of the flywheel. This may be due to the problem we have been discussing. Also are you always turning it clockwise? If you are turning it backwards and forward, the bevel on the gears may move the cam back and forth to the end play limits. This can move the point where the plunger hits the cam by several thousanths sideways on the lobe. The only reason it would change the gap is if the "bump" is worn and then the plunger could contact the unworn edge of the bump. Al Eden
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I'm using the starter button to turn crankshaft until points open. I tried running tractor today(with new points) with all the snow and would only run for 10 minutes until good and hot then started running fast and slow-jumping back and forth from fast and slow speed until it stalls. it runs good(at idle and high throttle) at cold temperature until you run for a few minutes.
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Roy, Are you sure it is an ignition problem? That sounds more like a fuel problem. Maybe carb icing, Does it run alright when it is warm out. Have you tried opening the mian jet in the carb 1/8 to 1/4 turn to see if it makes any difference? Al Eden
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