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Replacement engine for 3310H


JohnFornaro

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JohnFornaro
My 3310H has been running very well until last week, when it wouldn't start when we got 4" of snow, and I couldn't plow my driveway. I've rebuilt the carb,but that didn't solve the problem. In fact, the carb now leaks gas. Should I take out the float and bend the tab on it a little more to ensure positive shut-off? Tomorrow, I pick up points, plugs and condenser, which looked pretty good on the engine, but who knows. What's the gap on the points? I forget. I'm hoping that I'll have a running engine when I get these replaced. Four years or so ago, I had to replacde the voltage regulator, and rebuild the starter generator. The starter is good, but has the voltage regulator crashed? I can't figure out why the dang thing won't start. Plenty of spark, fairly powerful battery, and good cranking, but just vapor comes out of the exhaust pipe. Any ideas on why it won't start? Finally, I've been looking at the Northern Hydraulics catalog. Ok. Is there a current manufacture 10-16 hp B&S engine available for the 3310H? Maybe I'll try to get an older engine from a 3300-3400. Any comments? Thanks as usual.
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Since you rebuilt the carb, your emulsion tube may not be seating properly. If no, then it will let gas from the float bowl leak by and flood the engine. I fought that problem for quite a while on one. Oh, yeah, mine wasn't leaking before I rebuilt it either. Couldn't get it stopped afterward. Put another carb on it to fix the problem. There are members who have the tools and the knowledge to fix this problem.
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JohnFornaro
Rod: The carb that was on it was a new carb, which solved operability problems about five years ago. The carb I rebuilt was the original carb that came with the tractor when I bought it twelve years ago. Just so you know. When I rebuilt the orig. carb, I noticed visible wear on the little pin operated by the float, which I think is what stops the flow of gasoline. What is the emulsion tube that you refer to? Interestingly enough, your old problem sounds just like mine: Gas just flows out of the rebuilt carb! I'd rather not buy yet another carb...thought that rebuilding one was just a matter of patience and care. Thanks again
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I would bet that you put a chamion plug in.I have swithed to autolite plugs and have had a lot better luck.The chance of the flywheel key being bad is very unlikely because most of the ones I have had appart had steel keys in them.First thing is change the plug easy fast and cheap.Bob
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John, the emulsion tube is the long brass tube that screws into the carb before inserting the main jet. It goes through the fuel bowl and has a tapered seat to prevent fuel leakage from the float bowl. If this seat leaks the carb will fill up with fuel. This tube must be removed before you can remove the fuel bowl to work on the float and needle valve. I rebuilt mine for the wrong reason. Carb was working fine. Had a manifold gasket leaking. I actually ruined the carb during rebuild. Never could get it to stop leaking, even with a teflon washer on the seat of the tube. Bought another carb on ebay for $35. Runs fine now. Here is a picture of the emulsion tube and the possible leak paths.

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I agree with Bob, these "fractional horsepower" engines seem to be particularly fussy regarding spark plugs. A new plug always perks up my 3410 & 7016. First, check for spark. On both of my machines, the magneto went bad. I had put a brand new magneto on the 3410 when I rebuilt the engine, but it only lasted about 2 years. Same thing happened to my Dad's A/C B-10 years earlier. When I first got my 7016 back together (it runs strong the seller said) it refused to start. First thing I did was check for spark, the carb was leaking gas, so I knew fuel starvation wasn't the problem. I had no spark at all, so I got a universal coil from my local Autozone, wired it up with a toggle switch for battery power and hooked an automotive spark plug wire up to complete the retrofit. Fired up on the first try. First, my Dad's A/C, then my 3410 and now my 7016. It seems the magneto's on these tractors have a high failure rate, at least mine have. Here's a tip, instead of gapping your points, try loosening the lock nut then use a screwdriver while cranking the engine. Adjust points until you get a spark. Tighten the lock nut and re-attach the spark plug wire to the spark plug. Works better for me than using a feeler gauge. As for the gas leak, The carb on my 3410 eventually stopped leaking on its own, after 4 rebuilds, a new float and a new float valve and float valve seat. I put a cast-off cookie sheet on the floor to catch the drips. I installed a fuel shut off and the carb still leaks on my 7016. I'm rebuilding it again and hope to get it right the 5th time. Even with the carb and magneto problems, still best machine out there. Hope this helps, Brian
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Concerning the carb leaks and dripping, Al Eden has an excellent tech article on this. Check it out at http://edensltd.com/briggs_carb_leaks.htm
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JohnFornaro
Whoa. Al Eden's article is excellent. Thanks Mike. However, there's a bit of a terminology problem: The emulsion tube referred to by Rod, seems to be the "nozzle above the main jet" as mentioned in the article. I'll add this: When taking apart the original carb, (which I rebuilt) I forgot that you can't separate the halves without removing the "emulsion tube". Thus I engaged in a little gentle twisting, but I didn't notice any damage on the tube itself. Possibly the brass is harder than the carb housing, and enlarged the hole, before I wised up, and removed it with an unmodified screwdriver, much to Al Eden's chagrin. To my credit, I'm fairly gentle with parts when disassembling them; unfortunately, since I only mess with a carb every five years or so, I forget all the twicks of the twade. In short, the leak is very much like described in the article. Continuous. Worth disasembling and cleaning more thoroughly, but those small orifices are hard to get into. [Insert gender specific wisecrack here.] Incidentally, I noticed that the orifices (four, at ninety degrees from each other, in about the middle of the emulsion tube) are visibly a different size than those in the rebuild kit. How do you measure something that small? Lasers? Also, stamped above the threads, but below the itty bitty hole on the tube's shank is the number 30 on the old tube, 40 on the new. It is possible that the treads of the e. tube are leaking, but the drip is coming out of the covered drain hole in the bottom of the carb. Brian and Bob: Will check the brand of plug. I think it's a Champ. I got good spark, in the sense that it was easily visible in daylight. Right now, I think I may have a carbuetion issue. It was running powerful one day, and then the next, not. Thanks to all for writing. JF
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maxtorman1234
quote:
Originally posted by JohnFornaro
Finally, I've been looking at the Northern Hydraulics catalog. Ok. Is there a current manufacture 10-16 hp B&S engine available for the 3310H? Maybe I'll try to get an older engine from a 3300-3400. Any comments? Thanks as usual.
HMM, Maybe this calls for a KOHLER:D:D:D
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I put a BRAND NEW Briggs carb on my 3410,to solve a dripping problem. It started dripping about 6 months later. Put a fuel shutoff on it,and forget it. Concerning repowering,I repowered the same 3410 with an 11HP Briggs engine bought on EPay.The new engine was a 1985 or so model.It took a little engineering,but all in all,not a bad job. Had it switched and running in an long afternoon.
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John, If you are looking for a direct replacement engine for your 3310 Small Engine Warehouse still has them in stock with a 2 year factory warranty. http://www.smallenginewarehouse.com/product.asp?PN=243431-1172
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JohnFornaro
Max: Hmm.... Kohler... Don't they make Tubs and Toilets? Not sure how to interface one of those on my tractor. Seriously,in another thread, I'm bemoaning the valve cover gasket leak on the 18h Kohler in my Sovereign. I don't know enough about small engines to pontificate on my opinion, but eventually, I will have opinions based on my experiences. Mike: I checked out the link at Small Engine Warehouse. I had emailed them, asking about a 10 to 16 horse replacement. They suggested the 243431-1172, and the 243431-2530 as direct replacements. Does anyone know the differences between these engines, other than $50? Their picture is of a different engine. In their e-mail, they suggest the 326431 series as a replacement. More power, certainly. Any comments? Where can you find a diagram of the mounting bolt arrangement and the shaft centerline location? John
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John, A 326431 is a 16hp and will bolt right in to your 3310-H if you can get one of those that would be the way to go, IMO....
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John, my old book doesn't go new enough to include either of those type numbers, but browsing through it, the type numbers seem to specify minor differences that come on the engines from the factory, as well as factory set governor speed. For instance, one may come with an attached gas tank while the other not, or an engine mounted start system for use as a stationary engine on one but not the other. Same with a choke lever mounted on one, while the other requires a cable. And so on. Either engine will replace yours, the difference being, what you take off and discard and use off your old one. As long as the models are the same (243431), the major components will be the same. Somewhere in tech tips, there is a post telling what those numbers mean, but given that model number (read down) here is what it means 24 cubic inch dispalcement 3 basic design series 4 horizontal, flow jet carb, mechanical governor 3 flange mounted ball bearing 1 rope start So in short, I personally would go with the cheapest type of that model and change over any necessary parts from my old engine. ;) That is, IF I decided on a new engine. Just my opinion based on what I'm reading in this old book. ;)
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Well I can tell you from first hand experince that they charge $50.00 to $75.00 more for a black engine than what they charge for the red engines. I have bought two new engines from the in the last two years and they told me they charge more for the black engine because that is what color simplicity put in their tractors. Here is a picture of one engine that I got from them.
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JohnFornaro
Ray: Dang, what am I, the Smithsonian? I'm constantly fighting the urge to "correctly" restore machines. I like the engine foto, am disappointed to hear of the surcharge for black. Since I'm considering a 16h replacement, I suppose the color doesn't have to be considered! The most sensible thing is to get it running again. These engines are approximately the cost of a new big box riding mower, not that I plan on substituting one of these, mind you. Nevertheless, it is interesting how marketers prefer to make money off of people's emotions. The paint color adds no actual value to the machine. It requires work to add value, and no work to charge someone for having an emotion. It's understandable that the greatest profit can be had at the least expense by pricing products on this basis; I just object to the practice. But who's listening to me? Mike: Apparently the 326431 is no longer in stock at Small-E-W. I'll be working on this sucker later the next week or so to try and get it up and running.
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John, The first engine I bouught from them was a 16hp 326431 and the type number is 2521-07 this engine was black. It is also drilled at the top of the block for a dipstick tube that you will have to buy seperately from a briggs dealer (I prefer them this way atleast you can get 2 quarts of oil in them this way). You will also have to replace the governor spring and buy a couple of governor adjusting nuts and possibly a governor control rod. These engines that I bought from them are set up so that they go to full throttle once they are started must have been for a generator or pressure wash or something along those lines. The 10hp 243431 is a type number1172-02 and is red and not drilled at the top of the motor so you don`t have to buy the dipstick tube but you will have to change the other stuff mentioned above. The cost of these motors are half of what I could get a shortblock for locally and I checked everywhere I could for one. You also got to look at the longivity of these engines they last along time. alot longer than most box store lawn mowers. Small-E-W has a short block forsale http://smallenginewarehouse.com/product.asp?PN=SB393870 and may even have a complete engine that isn`t listed on there site.
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  • 2 weeks later...
JohnFornaro
After a bit, I can now report that the 3310H is now running well. New points, plug and condensor, new filter did the trick. I'm thinking that it was the plug all along, although the filter was rather dirty, and the points showed wear also. In any case, all these components added up so that one day, it decided not to run. Plus I cleaned the engine thoroughly; squirt bottle of degreaser, toothbrush, and a watering can to rinse it all off. (Poor man's pressure washer) Went ahead and changed oil, and put the newer (ie, previous) carb back on. No leaking, but the engine seems to run fairly rapicly on idle. One of the governor springs had worked loose; the one that reaches up the arm for extra strength at hi rpm? As I said, it runs rather well, although I haven't tried it running a full cartload of firewood up the 30% +/- slopes around here. Many thanks to the suggestions and interest shown here. I learned a lot from researching the various web sites mentioned. One fact that has been brought home is that this thirty year old engine may be getting near the end of its life. In reading around the Simple trACtors web site, I do not get the idea that people here like to part with money. Yet at the same time, people go to a great deal of effort to keep the older machines running, with greater and lesser degrees of adherence to original configuration. Clearly, the Simplicity dealers are all "list price" business people, so there are no savings to be had in that outlet. So what is the general sense around here (the web site) of what is appropriate in my situation? Let me recap. 33, 34 year old 10 hp tractor fails to start, is repaired for $20 or $30, not counting my time. (Which honestly must be valued at somewhere between $5 and $50 per hour, depending on who's talking). Clearly, a new engine could be installed for $750 +$50 shipping + a day of my time. (30 minutes for the experts.) This gets me a two year year warranty on the engine of an old tractor. I could sell it now for maybe a grand, and after I put the engine in it I maybe could sell it for a grand. Either way, I'm not that far off in assessing its value; the point being that a new engine + labor doesn't turn this tractor into a $2k machine. Or does it? All opinions will be read.....
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It may not turn it into a $2K machine. But it will add a considerable amount of time to the life of the tractor. I have a couple of tractors that I wouldn`t sell if I was offered a couple of grand for because I know that I couldn`t replace them for that. you could even have the engine rebuilt when needed for less than the $750.00 or even fine a decent used engine.
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In my mind it is not the value in $$$ that is importent, it is the value in the work it can do that makes the difference. Ask yourself "can a new MTD do what I ask my old Simplicity/AC to do?" If you are only mowing grass and don't need/want the stripe look in your lawn, then by all means go out and buy a new big box store riding lawn mower and sell one of us your Simplicity. IMHO Dan
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I agree with Ray and Dan, to me it's not the dollar value I could get for my tractors, it's the quality of the equipment. Granted none of us are rich or we wouldn't be on this site. I try to balance money spent versus value and longevity of the equipment. I buy Craftsman (hand tools only!), S-K or Snap On tools but not from retail outlets. I look for deals at flea markets, garage sales or the local paper. Let's say I got 2K for one of my Simplicity machines. Now what to replace it with...one of those recycled beer can machines from MTD? No way!! Personally, I've never calculated my time, since for me it's a hobby I love and keeps me out of trouble...other that collecting tractors that is. I wouldn't want a flimsy new machine with a plastic hood and "Japanesium" frame/deck...that needs replacing every other year. For me, my machines are an investment in durability and quality that I am just not willing to part with. By the way, if you're mechanically inclined, why not rebuild your own engine in the off season like I did. The parts were expensive, since Simplicity dealers know what they've got, but it was cheaper than farming out the rebuild or doing an engine swap. Plus, with me doing the work, I know it was done right. Brian
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  • 2 weeks later...
JohnFornaro
In my family of tractors, Sovereign, 7116, and 3310, I'm considering engine replacements across the board, but I have to be sensible. (Weird idea, eh? Sensibility, that is) I may be able to reuse the 10hp Briggs on a water pump or generator. The 16hp Brigs in the 7116 may get worked on and transferred to the 3310. The two engines are very close in size. Then I'd repower the 7116, discussed in another thread. I like the idea of a new 10 hp Briggs, however. The last of the few remaining for sale. I may only be getting 8hp out of the current 10hp Briggs. In any case, I'm currently in the process of fretting about the best way to do this. Right now, everything works, so it costs nothing to maintain the status quo. I'm trying to prepare for the inevitabilities of entropy and wear and tear. Getting back to the point of the last two replies: If I put a grand in the 3310 (even if it actually goes into the 7116), then I'll be keeping the tractor. It has turned out to be a very good tractor. But it would be nice to actually be able to rebuild the tractor and sell it for a profit. But that price would have to be around $2500. A hard sell in today's glamorous tractor market.
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thedaddycat
You just have to look around and see what you find. I know someone who just bought a B-12, Hi-Low, and sickle bar for $550. How do I know this, because I sold it to him....
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