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Engine rebuild


keifer2k3

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It turns out my 7114H needs a rebuild. I think oil is leaking into the cylinder somewhere and burning off when it first starts. After its warm it seems fine with no smoke unless accelerating the throttle. So I'll get it rebuilt and baby it for another 25 yrs or so. Not sure where to go with it though. I want someone who's hearts in it. About 20 miles away at the nearest Simplicity shop there's a different teenager there as the mechanic every time I go there. Any ideas where to go here in Nortern Il. Is it even a big deal to rebuild these old motors? i.e. How big is the difference between a good job and a bad job? This is a Kohler K series 321S. I don't even know if it cast, sleeved or aluminum. When you rebouild do you bore it out some, replace the piston and increase the HP? Or do you just replace the rings and such?
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I've read your story about just buying this fine looking machine off eBay and it supposedly ran fine until you got it home. What a rip that guy was huh? My heart goes out to ya! I did much the same thing not too long ago here in NE Illinois. A guy had a AC 912H in the paper and it looked mint, not a scratch on it, always garaged, on a half acre yard etc.. I tried it out and noticed the thing smoked a little at start up so I asked him if I could take it for a ride. I mowed about 300 feet of grass and noticed it had a slight amount of smoke as I used it, not bad but just enough where I wasn't real comfortable with it. So, I asked the guy how much oil it used between mowings. He looks at me with a bewildered look and says "OH, I just change the oil every 25 hours according to the book". (which he was proudly showing me). "I never check it." I'm thinking OK, he seems like a nice guy and all and the tractor was super looking so we struck a deal. I get the thing home and start looking it over and checking fluids etc. and I notice the oil is low so I put in around a quart and a half. I get through checking it out and figure I'll go mow the dang lawn so I fired it up. Mosquito fogger won't even come close to describing what I had on my hands. I couldn't even see the other side of the yard. He had the oil so low I doubt the dipper was even hitting the oil in the pan. I used it about a year with straight 50 wt. oil when it finally blew a rod and then stuck a 10 hp in it I got off Jack Cobb. Jack owns it now as we did a trade for a 3212H awhile back. I'm glad he really likes those AC's cause I really like that Simplicity. Anyway, getting back to your search for a rebuild shop here in Illinois there is a guy in Island Lake on Route 176?? that works out of an old style gas station/garage right in the center of town. Maybe Island Lake Automotive?? He has a pretty good reputation and is always dabbling in different lawn tractors with an emphasis on engine work. He took a 12 hp Briggs I had here one time micced it all up and put a new standard rod, piston and rings in it for $250. It ran super afterwards. I would think you would have something closer though, check out a local NAPA. If they don't do it they usually know someone that can. Good luck on your next encounter with a smooth talking salesman. I know I will be... LOL!! Richard
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After you have the motor torn down, you can have it checked whether it will need bored or not. At a minimum you'll probably want it honed, a new piston, rings, and rod. I had my 16hp briggs rebuilt and it runs real nice now!
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Keith, The only way you will know what motor needs to to take motor apart. A good way to see what shape cylinder wall is in is to remove cylinder head. If there grooves in cylinder wall it will need bored. Is there a good small motor shop(not Simplicity dealer)or a machine shop that does work on motors in your area? My 17 year old Son and I will take the motor apart. He has done the last 2 motors by himself. We will measure and check specs before we take motor to local Napa store. They have a great machine shop. Odds are motor will need bored and new piston and rings. I don't bore a motor unless it needs it. Worse case the crank will have to be turned .010 under and a new rod will be required. Worn valve guide(s)will cause motor to smoke. Valves may need to be ground or replace depending on there condiation. When it the last time crankcase breather been cleaned. It it's plug it will cause motor to smoke as you describe.
quote:
How big is the difference between a good job and a bad job?
If you are planning to keep 7114 for a long time I would spend a few extra bucks and do it right the first time if it's was mine. I've spent $175 to close to $500+(puller motor). I use Kohler parts. If the motor has balance gears I would throw balance gears in the trash. I rebuild a K321 3 years ago because snap ring that holds balance gear on broke.
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Thanks Richard. He was smooth! I'm still not sure if he was that smooth, or that dumb.When he dropped it (free delivery....75 miles) he said the oil had just been changed. He seemed honest enough, so I did'nt check it seeing how clean and in good shape the rest was. When I did check it was a good quart low and black. Now why would he say the oil had just been changed on the chance that I would look, and legally I had already bought it anyway(though I still had my money at that point). Seemed like he was still trying to sell it. Prolly the first time I ever bought a tractor, basically sight unseen without checking the oil. I would have bought it anyway. Dale I definatly plan to keep it awhile so I'll have it done right. My skills (or lack there of..) prevent me from tearing into engines. I can fix alot on a tractor myself but I stay out of motors and tranys. acually I'm very good at tearing things apart it's getting them back together that I struggle sometimes. Thanks for the info and the advise. Paul thanks. I have a 16 Briggs twin. I love it!
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I have a hunch he knew what he was doing. An all time favorite for old tired out engines is to put straight 50 weight in them. Only thing is don't try this once it starts getting cold out cause that stuff is like mollasses. It really clears up the oil usage and slows the smoking considerably too. Even after I started using mine with the straight 50 it used a half quart in an hours run time so he may have just changed it. Richard
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Keith, I just went thru my 7012's engine last year....made it a 7014 with 14 block and crankshaft....I went with a #30 carb also as my 14 block had the large exhaust valve. Not to be the voice of doom but every K series I built that smokes like you describe needed .020 cleanup bore and crankshaft turned. Mine was turned .020 and fitted with a rod that accepts split bearings. Kohler only sells .010 under rods. I can recommend the stens parts also-considerably cheaper and mike right on spec. Don't be suprised if it gets around $400-$500 either-do it right or not at all. I removed the balance gears on mine too.....was not satisfied with the vibrations under 1800 rpms....hood,etc looked like a paint shaker. I guess the engineers really did know what they were doing after all. Just got all the parts in and I get to tear it all back down....lesson learned :). Ike
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This is why I don't balance/gernade gears anymore:

Dipper on connecting rod is bent when balance gear came off:

Pin that holds balance/gernade gear is bent and galled:

Motor/Tractor does shake a little at idle since the rebuild. Motor has 150 to 175 hours on it. RPM range is 850 to 3900 rpm. My Dad has a K321AQS in a IH Cub Cadet he purchase new in 1977 that shakes as bad as mine does. Motor has never been apart and should have balance gears in it. Motor mounts in Dad's Cub are rubber.
quote:
I guess the engineers really did know what they were doing after all.
Why did engineers use a mickey mouse snap ring to hold balance/gernade gears on? There are better ways to hold gears on than a snap ring. I've saw enough blocks damage by balance/gernade gears to know I won't put them back in.
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I havent seen any blocks with balance gears come off. As long as you replace bearings, and use new snap rings and the right spacers, they will be fine. I have put them in all my rebuilds and they run great. If your cylinder is still within specs, a new set of rings will do. Probably do the valves will help get a little more power too.
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I talked to a guy today at a local outfit that does small engine repair. Said he could do the whole job new piston, rings, rod, valves, clips, machining etc. for $800-1100... Sounds pretty high based on what some of you are saying. I don't want to get to ripped twice on this thing. What do you guys think?
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Oh ya he gets $50 dollars an hour labor and said I could save $50 if I removed the motor.
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quote:
Originally posted by keifer2k3
I talked to a guy today at a local outfit that does small engine repair. Said he could do the whole job new piston, rings, rod, valves, clips, machining etc. for $800-1100... Sounds pretty high based on what some of you are saying. I don't want to get to ripped twice on this thing. What do you guys think?
You can buy a brand new one here http://smallenginewarehouse.com/product.asp?PN=K321S-60393 for $975.00 . I got lucky and won this on eBay http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=79670&item=3981966181&rd=1 cheap as far as I am concerned.
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Ray, I saw that engine and was going to post a link to it....I searched on ebay quite a while ! Great find.....glad it got a good home Ike
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I couldn`t belive how low the buy it now price was. I bought one 3 years ago and it cost $850.00 so I had to buy it. Can`t have enough spares.
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