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7016 Hydro Problem - Won't Move


BrianP

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My newly restored 7016 has developed a problem that's got me stumped. Thankfully, I recently became a full member to this wonderful site. Ok, about 4 weeks ago the tractor was running fine. 3 weeks ago I fired her up for weekly lawn mowing duty and when I moved the hydro control lever forward nothing happened...at first, then she moved out of the shed and I did my chores. Last week as usual, I fired it up, but when I moved the hydro lever forward, nothing happened. I moved the lever back and forth several times with no response. I hopped off and checked the belts, ok on that score (all brand new anyway), checked that the set screw of the input shaft pully hadn't fallen out and was spinning on the shaft, ok on that score. Shut everything down for a more in-depth examination. I did find that the fluid was low and figured this was the problem. Not knowing when the fluid was last changed, I drained it, refilled it with Dexron Type-F and installed a new Simplicity filter. I remembered to hold the relief valve open while I refilled it. I jacked the rear wheels up off the floor and with the hydro control lever halfway forward (per instructions on how to prime the hydro in my Simplicity repair manual), cranked the engine with the plug removed to wait for the rear wheels to turn. Engine cranked and the pulleys spun, but the rear wheels didn't move one bit. Re-checked fluid level several times and it's up to the proper level, bottom of fill tube. Double checked the free-wheeling latch to make certain it was up in "engage position". If I grab both wheels and try to turn them forward, I can even though the latch is in the engage position. Do the charge valves that this latch works on ever fail? That's the only way my detective work has led me so far. I'm hoping some of you hydro experts out there have run into this before and can help me out. Sorry if I was long-winded, but I wanted to include everything I've checked up to this point. Fortuneately, my trusty 3410 3-speed I've owned since 1987 is still up to the task of mowing my lawn. Still, I want to get my 7016 back in the line up. Thanks, Brian
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Welcome to the club, Brian. If you go to resources and links then to the (1) Simplicty Tech Pub Dept. put in your 7016 mfg number and your tractor will come up some times exploded veiws are also available. I would think that you would have heard a variation from what it sounded like when it was working properly. Is the Dextron F the right stuff? The type F breaks down kinna fast in high heat applications. Maybe you need Dextron III, or Mopar ATF +3. Tiz worth a shot. My book says to use a muti purpose transmission fluid. But for studing purposes while someone who has more knowledge of this question answers you. http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3828/is_200311/ai_n9320844
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Check the pully that moves when you step on the clutch/brake. To make sure that the drive belt is tight, thats what happened to mine.
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Happened to mine also, actually had to move idler down. Probably should have put new belt on also.
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I had the same problem, it seems unlikely in this case though. I bought a 716 for parts that sat a while, and turned out that the releivf valves were stuck inside, and 2 of the pistons inside the pump were rusted in. I couldn't even turn the wheels at all though. It seems like the valves are stuck.
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Leroy ATF type A, F, Dexron, Mercon II, Mercon III, Mobil DTE 13M, Texaco HD 46, Simplicity muti-purpose Hyd oil, are all correct for the Sundstrand model 15 hydro/simplicity transaxle Per Simplicity and their Transmission & Gearbox Lubrication Charts. Required amount for the large frame tractors is 96 oz. Sunstar and Legacy 192 0z. and for the pow'r Max tractors 6 qts. Transmission & Gearbox Lubrication Charts [url]http://www.simpletractors.com/club2/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=22258[/url]
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Hi, Sounds to me like you charge pump is getting bad. When they get worn, they lose their prime and when you start the tractor oil is not supplied to charge the hydro pump. Often you can move the hydro lever and the tractor won't move. Then suddenly if the lever is for example 3/4th forward, the charge pump will finaaly suck up some oil and charge the hydro and the tractor will almost pull a wheelie and lurch to the speed the lever is set to. The charge pump can be removed from the left side of the hydro on the same shaft as the main hydro pump. Try to keep the gerotor meshed as it is when removed. DO NOT TURN THE GEROTER INTERNAL GEAR OR EXTERNAL GEAR OVER when reassembling. They must be reinstalled with the same mating surfaces as they have worn in to each other. I would bet you will need to replace the charge pump and you will have a unit that behaves like new. Al Edem
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Thanks to all who've replied so far. I don't think the fluid is the problem since it's approved of in the manuals. Ron, I re-checked the belts and pulleys one more time, (just to be sure), and everything's ok on that score. When the tractor's running, both ends of the input shaft are spinning. While I had the seat up, I made sure all the linkages were working properly as well. I think Al has hit the nail on the head. I downloaded the service manual from the Simplicity web site for the Sunstrand 15 hydro. They advise checking the system pressure and if it's low to inspect the charge relief valve, or the charge pump. This problem does act for all the world like a pump that's lost its prime, so I'll delve into that as soon as I have time...or Saturday at the latest. Thanks again for all who replied, this is an amazing site and well worth the $10 dues. I'll post updates as I get deeper into this. Brian
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quote:
Originally posted by UCD
Leroy ATF type A, F, Dexron, Mercon II, Mercon III, Mobil DTE 13M, Texaco HD 46, Simplicity muti-purpose Hyd oil, are all correct for the Sundstrand model 15 hydro/simplicity transaxle Per Simplicity and their Transmission & Gearbox Lubrication Charts. Required amount for the large frame tractors is 96 oz. Sunstar and Legacy 192 0z. and for the pow'r Max tractors 6 qts. Transmission & Gearbox Lubrication Charts [url]http://www.simpletractors.com/club2/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=22258[/url]
Thanks Maynard, The amount of info related to transmission fluid is enormous and confusing, per the url i posted.
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quote:
Originally posted by Al
Hi, Sounds to me like you charge pump is getting bad. When they get worn, they lose their prime and when you start the tractor oil is not supplied to charge the hydro pump. Often you can move the hydro lever and the tractor won't move. Then suddenly if the lever is for example 3/4th forward, the charge pump will finaaly suck up some oil and charge the hydro and the tractor will almost pull a wheelie and lurch to the speed the lever is set to. The charge pump can be removed from the left side of the hydro on the same shaft as the main hydro pump. Try to keep the gerotor meshed as it is when removed. DO NOT TURN THE GEROTER INTERNAL GEAR OR EXTERNAL GEAR OVER when reassembling. They must be reinstalled with the same mating surfaces as they have worn in to each other. I would bet you will need to replace the charge pump and you will have a unit that behaves like new. Al Edem
Interesting Al, I have a 716H that does that. I just found the complete kit on ebay for $35 brand new:). It includes the gears, cast housing pin seal, ect. I wonder how much a dealer would want?
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