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Reasonable service life of Kohler Command


Kent

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I'm looking at a used, one owner machine with a Kohler Command V-Twin in it. It has less than 300 hours on it, well maintained, and he has used Mobil 1 in it since the breakin (I think he started using Mobil 1 at either 25 or 50 hour point). What would be a reasonable service life expectancy for this engine? I've never owned a V-twin, much less a Kohler... I'm used to the old Briggs castiron singles.
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Be careful Kent. I have one that has 200 hours on it and needs the head gasket replaced on it. My neighbor down the street has one on a Deere that also has a head gasket going on it. My dealer says that he has replaced alot of head gasket on the command engines this year already and Kohler dosen`t want to do anything about the problem or admit there is one.
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Ray, What year models are those engines? This is a 2001 model... Just wondering if the head-gasket problems might be unique to a specific production timeframe, or a general short-coming with this engine...
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I recently bought a Sunstar with a 20 hp Command in it. Previous owner claimed it used a little oil, so I removed the engine and am in the process of overhauling it. After removing the shroud, I have determined that the rear crankshaft seal has been leaking - the entire back side of the engine is fully caked with oil, grease, dirt, and grass - to the point that there couldn't have been much, if any, cooling air getting to that engine. I was more than pleasantly suprised at the condition of the engine. The crosshatch hone marks can still be seen on the sleeves, rings are in good shape as well as the pistons. This is after 793 hours. I'm now convinced that the oil useage has been from it simply leaking out of the engine. I wouldn't be too concerned about 300 hours, especially if Mobil 1 has been used. WITom
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We have a cub cadet 2185 with a 18hp command engine in it. It has 550 hours on it and we have not had any problems with it doesn't use any oil either. It seems to be a pretty good engine from what I hear. Ours is a 1995 or 1996 model.
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Kent When i was going through my trouble with the triad engine in my sovereign I did som reasearch and askes allot of questions about the command series engine. All the information I found indicated that they were a "workhorse engine" and should last a good long time if properly maintained. As far as the hours on it , they do not seem unreasonable But i think that sombody like AL would have a better call as to the reliability of a command with those hours on it. Try PM'ing AL and see if he has an opinion. What kind of machine are you looking at is it an RBT Sovereign? :)
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Kent, I bought it new in March of 2002. It is a vertical 20 hp and 10w 30 Mobile One is the only thing that has been used in it since the first oil change. The dealer told me that the replacement head gasket has been redesigned.
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Thanks, everyone, for the input. I'll probably go look at it this week...
quote:
Originally posted by roma3112
Kent What kind of machine are you looking at is it an RBT Sovereign? :)
No... it's one of these (without the "custom paint scheme"), to use clearing brush and logs on my lot in Tennessee. [img]http://www.tractorbynet.com/forumfiles/394982-e%20Right%20Rear.JPG[/img] http://www.power-trac.com The new PT 425's use a Robin engine, but the older ones used Kohlers. They're not that common, and you don't see many used ones for sale. This one is a 2001 model, with less than 300 hours, and is a bit less than half the price of a new one, when you consider the price of the attachments that come with it...
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quote:
Originally posted by Kent
Thanks, everyone, for the input. I'll probably go look at it this week...
quote:
Originally posted by roma3112
Kent What kind of machine are you looking at is it an RBT Sovereign? :)
No... it's one of these (without the "custom paint scheme"), to use clearing brush and logs on my lot in Tennessee. [img]http://www.tractorbynet.com/forumfiles/394982-e%20Right%20Rear.JPG[/img] http://www.power-trac.com The new PT 425's use a Robin engine, but the older ones used Kohlers. They're not that common, and you don't see many used ones for sale. This one is a 2001 model, with less than 300 hours, and is a bit less than half the price of a new one, when you consider the price of the attachments that come with it...
It looks like it will help get the job done. A diesel should be in that thing tho for the amount of grunting it will be doing. The land speed record will not be required of this one, 4x4 individual wheel hydro drive motors?
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quote:
Originally posted by Leroy It looks like it will help get the job done. A diesel should be in that thing tho for the amount of grunting it will be doing. The land speed record will not be required of this one, 4x4 individual wheel hydro drive motors?
Yes, 4 hydraulic wheel motors. It articulates 45 degrees, oscillates (twists) 12 degrees, and has an 800 lb loader capacity. It's rated for use on 25 degree slopes -- limited by the engine's lubrication system. The bigger ones have Deutz 30, 45 or 60 horse oil-cooled diesels, and correspondingly stronger hydraulics. One of them, with dual wheels, is used as a slope mower, and is rated for 45 degree slopes. The big ones are out of my price range, and this is the largest of the gas engine, smaller models...
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Kent I've seen commercial mowers with the Command's come through the shop with over 1000 hours on them and still going strong. With that few hours on the machine I see no reason to shy away from it. Looks like a neat piece of equipment!.
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Thanks, Larry. With 4 23x10.50x12 Carlisle lug tires, I'm hoping it'll get the traction I need to work in the woods. I just talked to the guy, and am going to look at it tomorrow afternoon, and test drive it in his woods. It comes with a 45" bucket (no grapple forks -- I'd need to add those, but the hydraulic lines/control are already there), a 48" rough-cut mower, 60" finish mower (which I don't need), 60" 6-way power-adjustable plow, and 60" landscape rake.
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Kent, I agree with Larry,I've seen well over a thousand hours on these engines.There are 2 of our customers that have over 2,000 hrs.One of them is in a 918h and the other one is in a sunstar.
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Well, I spent over an hour last evening in a drizzling rain checking out and testing (i.e. playing) with this used Power Trac PT 425. After sleeping on it, and playing with the numbers, I'm pretty much convinced that this is the way I'll go... buy it, and sell the Kubota I just bought (and that disappointed me with its traction in the sloping Tennessee woods). I played with the loader bucket on some rough terrain behind his house, getting a feel for the hydraulics (they're very strong, but they're also quick and sensitive for a newcomer!), the maneuverability, and the traction it has. I was quite pleased with the traction on rough ground, especially since the grass, brush and weeds were wet and slippery. The only way I could spin a tire (front tire) was when I was pushing the bucket into the side of a hill. Though I wasn't good enough with the loader to pick up and balance a log on the bucket, it easily picked up a shoved a wet 18" log about 10 feet long -- with a grapple bucket to grip the log, it would have easily lifted and carried it. I was most pleasantly surprised by the stability of its low center of gravity and twisting frame -- your feet are only about 8" above the ground. The engine sits low, at the back, between the rear wheels (like an old VW :D), and the 10 gallon hydraulic tank is welded into the front of the rear frame box, just ahead of the engine, and behind the pivot point. It's actually under your seat, which is attached to the front of the tractor. Bottom line is that there's a lot of weight down low between the wheels. I had it on side slopes where I was holding onto the ROPS with one hand to stay in the seat, even though I had a seat belt on. I literally tried to climb a steep road bank -- it wouldn't, but it didn't spin, slide nor in any way lose control -- instead the wheel motors just whined and it gracefully said "I give" -- so I eased off the foreword pedal (the pedals are spring-loaded to center, where it serves as a brake), and it slowly rolled back down. Perhaps more than anything else, it just felt solid, safe and predictable, with no feeling of "tipsy-ness" or "top-heavyness" at all, even with a load of big rocks in the bucket on rough ground. With its articulation, you can quickly turn it around in just about its own length. The rear end will cut so sharply that the back of the armrests will actually rub the engine cover. However, I also found that with a heavy load in the bucket, on uneven ground, with the rear end turned sharply, that I could get one rear wheel off the ground -- the rear of the tractor simply twisted (leaving one rear wheel on the ground) and you get a weird "hunched up" sensation, instead of the whole rear of the tractor suddenly feeling light. I simply turned the steering wheel back straight, lengthening the wheelbase, and it settled gently back on all four wheels. I'm sure it would be possible to get both rear wheels up in the air, but it would likely take a heavy load, raised up high with the bucket, especially when you were facing downhill. The engine seems to be in good condition, and has 247 hours on it (bought new in December 2000). The only real signs of wear and tear (other than paint scratches and such) were some scuffs on the the articulation (i.e. steering) hoses. The remainder of the hydraulic system looked fine. But, it still has the original battery, and it should be replaced, just for peace of mind -- we had to use a booster to start it initially, though it started and ran fine afterwards. These things are heavy-duty, about 1350 lbs without an attachment on them. There's no real frame members, the whole bottom part of the tractor is 3/8" steel plate welded together in a box, with a smooth "belly." Even the hood for the engine is about 1/8" steel plate, with heavy wire mesh (like used on the ramps of landscape trailers) welded into to large cutouts for ventilation. The "dashboard" is the same way, with thinner steel used in access plates and such. Overall, it seems a very tough, simple (some would call it crude, since every one is hand welded together), but very different kind of machine... I tried calling the factory in Tazewell VA to get some sense of the market value of it, but they are closed all this week for their plant's vacation, and only one lady was there answering all the phones. I'll have to call back next week -- but the seller has graciously allowed me enough time to do so before making a final decision. Plus, I'll have to deal with the logistics (my Kubota and 14' trailer are still in Tennessee), and pulling together the cash before I've sold the Kubota... It's a pretty unique machine -- it reminds me of a lighterweight version of an old articulating 4WD Pettibone industrial forklift that I used to drive on construction sites -- it drives and rides nothing like a skidsteer. Unless something happens to change my mind, I'll probably get a chance to spend a lot more time playing with it...
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Kent, We have not replaced a blown Kohler Command yet. I have seen some with over 2500 hours. I am aware that others have seen failures, but I think one should expect over 2000 hours normally. On thing on this loader remember it will tip on a hill side with the unit turning downhill. We used to see this with Timberjack log skidders when on a steep side hill and one would turn down the back wheels came very close together and effectively moves the wheels in toward the body. I have had them up on one wheel before, but with logs in the arch in the back and a quick short downhill manuver was about the only one could upset one. Your loader bucket should proctect against that though. Have a ball with this unit it will be fun. I have a friend with a Swinger loader that is similar to this really a slick unit, but with a FULL load on the forks or bucket and on a side slope even if you are not moving turn it short downhill, it will tip down. Still a heck of a unit. Not a problem, just thought I would mention it so if you expetience it it won't be a surprise. I would love to have that unit to play with Al Eden
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Thanks, Al, for that vote of confidence on the Kohler. I figured they'd be pretty reliable, or you wouldn't be using them in your repowers. Thanks also for your tips on the loaders' stability and quirks. The PT Owners call this phenomenon the "PT pucker" when the rear end comes up when you turn the steering with a heavy load -- in this case about 750 lb. [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/FOURTEEN/Roller_TBN_d_.jpg[/img] [img]http://img18.photobucket.com/albums/v54/FOURTEEN/Roller_TBN_b.jpg[/img] I'm contemplating loading the rear tires and perhaps adding wheel weights to try reducing this, but I don't think it can be totally prevented. Since I plan on keeping my Allis/Simplicity tractors for lawn/garden work, this one would be used primarily in the woods, or doing site prep/cleanup kind of stuff. Though it's not a log skidder, a payloader, nor a skidsteer, it seems to combine features of all of them. It was this same owner's pictures of using his grapple bucket that first caught my attention: [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/FOURTEEN/GrappleTBNa.jpg[/img] [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/FOURTEEN/Brush.jpg[/img] [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/FOURTEEN/LogPullerTBN.jpg[/img] Though he doesn't have the slopes to deal with that I do, these pictures do show the usefulness of the grapple bucket in the woods... even if I have to drag most of the logs out (my brother will get the big ones, leaving me with the brush and stuff less than 10" or so), rather than carry them with the bucket, the ability to grab and carry out a bucket of brush would save a lot of time, sweat and sore muscles... I certainly wouldn't be carrying them as high in the air as these "showoff" pictures, above! :D
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Kent: I remember when you first started talking about that lot in Tennessee. I was using my 3310 to drag logs in my neck of the woods and made a comment or two. The grapple bucket and articulation is amazing. I wonder if my wife will let me get one of those.
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I'll keep you posted on how I do with this one. I just told the guy tonight to "consider it sold", though I'm still figuring out a way to get it home, since my trailer is in Tennessee... :(
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