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KT19 Series II


mbrook

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I just picked up a 7117 that has a KT19 Series II in it. I knew the engine had a problem, so I started pulling it apart last night. I found that the connecting rod was broke on one cylinder. It seems that there are mixed feelings as to rebuild or replace the engine. I'm curious as to way so many say that this series of engine is better replaced than rebuilt. I've looked at Al's replacement kit and really like it, but the price is more than what I can put into it now. As for rebuilding I can get a gasket kit and rods, pistons and rings for about $450. I was wondering if anybody has rebuilt them, and what kind of success or failures have happened. Thanks in advance.
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I'd go for it, I like our Kt17. As long as the oil is up and cooling fins are clean, it should be fine. We always wash and clean ours out after every use. THe kohlers seem to run hot, so cooling is critical. Id rebuild it.
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quote:
Originally posted by maxtorman1234
As long as the oil is up and cooling fins are clean, it should be fine. We always wash and clean ours out after every use. THe kohlers seem to run hot, so cooling is critical. Id rebuild it.
Hmmm... my old cast-iron Briggs consider themselves lucky if/when they get checked once in the spring to make sure no mice spent the winter inside the cooling tin in a nice comfy nest... and I've yet to see one with a thrown rod, even after the mice moved in... Maybe if I showed my Briggs this much TLC, they'd sing and dance for me... :D:D:D:D Instead they just "grunt" when the governor kicks in at WOT, and keep on running...
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Kohlers need to be kept clean , but are easier for me to work on. THey are great engines when maintained. Every engine has its problems
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Yes, every engine has its problems. On the Briggs, I've noticed two areas that can be problematic: 1. Dripping carbs -- easily remedied with adding an inline fuel shutoff for less than $5.00 2. Finicky points/condensers -- easily remedied by adding an aftermarket ignition module (to eliminate the points) for less than $15.00 I'll take that instead of thrown rods any day... ;);););););)
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Broken S/G bracket, parts are not as redily avaliable, Hard to work on, built cheaper, Damaged heads, as in Mack's post, finiky carbeurators. Also, If you don't LET the rod break in a kohler, You wont have to fix it.
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quote:
Originally posted by maxtorman1234
Broken S/G bracket,
Never had one break...
quote:
parts are not as redily avaliable,
Never heard of a problem on an engine newer than 1965 (Model 243431 or later) -- that's now 40 years old -- though the earlier Model 19s and 23s make take more effort to find...
quote:
Hard to work on,
If a rebuild is needed once every 25/30 years, who's complaining?
quote:
built cheaper,
This is a "Ford vs Chevy" IMO, and the quality of their "industrial/commercial" engines are quite similar...
quote:
Damaged heads, as in Mack's post,
Yep, and this is something that no one had seen before...
quote:
finiky carbeurators.
As I said, the float adjustment is critical, and a lot of them drip, but that's easily worked around, in my experience...
quote:
Also, If you don't LET the rod break in a kohler, You wont have to fix it.
Hmmm... KT Series I's required a replacing them with the upgraded Series II. Triads required replacing them with the proven Commands... What Briggs "top of the line" (at the time) product lines had corresponding problems?
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Anyhow, all the briggs i've had have been nothing but trouble, However, since everyone says theyre so great, I'm going to be getting a 16HP so i can see just how good it is. I don't expect it'll be an easy fix.
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quote:
Originally posted by Kent
Hmmm... KT Series I's required a replacing them with the upgraded Series II. Triads required replacing them with the proven Commands...
Well, Not all series 1 KT's had problems. I know of a couple on Welders that are still going with a couple thousand hours on them. Regular oil changes, and maintaned proper.y I havent had a problem with any of my 10 running kohlers, and theyre worked hard. And maintained,
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The oiling problem on Series I engines only shows up when you run the engine on a slope/angle. The engines on the welders are likely sitting nice and flat... BTW -- I'm not knocking Kohlers -- I'm getting ready to buy a tractor with a 25 HP Kohler Command in it. I'm just saying that your continued "knocking" of Briggs is unwarranted, IMO. ;) In my experience, a cast-iron single Briggs will stand much more "use, neglect and abuse" than the K-series Kohlers. Well maintained, the K-series Kohlers will likely outperform the Briggs of the same HP rating -- that's why they're the favorites of pullers (in addition to the availablility of aftermarket performance parts). However, the Briggs may outlast it, especially for most owners. BTW, I buy/bought all my tractors to use, and I've been known to abuse them also... I don't buy them to "baby them"... I just hope the CH25 that I'm getting ready to buy holds up the way my old Briggs have, but it'll be another 15 or 20 years before I know, for sure...
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I really have yet to find a good reliable Briggs. I'd really like to get a good runnig briggs, since that 7.25HP had alot of guts, just was a pain. The kohlers are a bit more fussy about oil, cooling ect, but they're nice to work with. The 16HP in my 716H has seen a little abuse too:I lol, but I think the balance gear bearing need replacing, as they seem to be noisier. That's why im going to give that 16 briggs a try, Hopefully I can get it to run nice for me.
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Be carefull Graham, getting into a Briggs w/ a pre-determined mindset may only add fuel to your fire. As an example, most Kohlers had a fuel pump. This presets the needle float at a higher tention thn the Briggs. They were designed to barely close w/ little to no back pressure. Also tey were designed for a completely diff. type of gas. The crap in gas now is very corrosive to any of the alluminum carbs used. W/ Briggs inserting the jet into the carb. body so far up into the lower body and w/ a small slot for a certain size screw-driver that many people don't take tme to prperly clean the carb. before attempting to remove the jet. Also w/ the carb being the lowest point on a Briggs system, moister collected inside a fuel tank will displace the fuel in a sitting engine leaveing only water in the carb. to attack the alluminum. This doen't happen to a Kohler w/ a fuel pump. Or it doesn't happen as bad as most Briggs I've seen. My point is this, all diff. engines do have their own flaws. However most Kohler problems are internal and most Briggs are external. IMO. Given enough time to properly diagnose any problems with the newly aqiured 16 Briggs, I'm sure you'll find that it's so close in power and performance in these tractors that you'll be hard pressed to tell the diff. To me the self contained ign. system, is much more durable than running the voltage through old wires and connections throughout the tractor frame. Once any repaires are made--PROPERLY, then give it an honest try.
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Hi If you rebuild that KT check tha crankcase halves to be sure when the rod went the crankcase didn't get distorted. Next I would pin the governor shaft and if the governor gear is brown or a really deep tan would put a new governor in. The main bearings in these are kind of expensive, but I would put them in even if the crank is true and doesn't need grinding. These engines deliver a lot of power, and last a long time if properly done. I would suspect the people that have failures with them are trying to due cheap rebuilds on them and might do well to do it all, It only costs a few bucks to go first class. Then you know what you have. Al Eden
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I had a Series I KT17 in my Case (as a replacement for the original 14hp single Kohler) for less than a year when it threw the left side rod. A chunk of the rod went thru the right side of the case just below the right cylinder. I'd just changed the oil that morning, and was mowing on level ground when it happened. Motor had been running fine before it that. To my knowledge, the motor had never been apart before. I found out afterwards that thrown rods are common on the Series I motors, but the Series II were supposed to be better. I put an Onan 16hp in after that, and it's been trouble-free and working hard ever since. FWIW, the original 14hp was running when I removed it. It was just tired and had already bored .030 over and the crank turned, hence the engine swap.
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I've had my Deutz-Allis 917 for a year now. It has a KT17 series II and the power is impressive. The club member I purchased it from pointed out what I see all the time here -- keep the shrouds and fins clean and oil up. But he also advised me to run it on full throttle most or all of the time for maximum cooling (from the fan action and oil circulation). Frankly, the engine seems to run smoother at those high rpms and I've followed his advice. It just feels like overkill-- such a racket for the little chores I ask of it. I've never seen anyone talk about needing to run the Koehlers full out to maximize cooling. Agree? Disagree? Dunno?
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Never heard about having to run them full throttle. Like you said, it is a racket for small chores, and increases wear on internal parts because of the speed. I run Our Kt17 Sereis II at the speed it needs to get the job done. For spraying or pulling stuff around we run it a bit above idle, and maybe 1/2 - 3/4 for mowing. Never had any problems yet. I wouldnt run it at full throttle all the time.
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I always run the twin Kohlers at full throttle.I have found a significant difference in what the governed speed is set at. 2400 on my KT-17 3700 on Magnum 20. I did reset KT-17 to 3600 after not being able to blow snow properly.
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At full throttle, you may have more air flow, but you're also creating more heat. I only run the engine at the speed it needs to do the job. O, and I forgot to mention earlier, Sheared flywheel keys seem to be a briggs related problem :)
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Hi, All of the engine companies recommend running the engines at the governed speed. Since centrifugal fans work on a square law function, when you double the speed you move 4 times the air. Double it again and you move 4 times more, or at an increase of 4 times moves 16 times the air. This is why tiny turbo chargers can move such high volumes of air with a tiny turbine. If you go to Briggs factory school they will tell you that 2 things cause valve seats to come out of the block. 1 plugged fins, 2 mowing at half throttle. Every Vangard I have seen with a valve seat out, the people were mowing at half throttle. When you are running under a load at low speed, the engine heat from the combustion is in the cylinder longer and the risistance from the load is increased. The slower longer burn cycle creates as much or more heat than at governed speed. The engine temps go up with far less air to cool them. Call any of the engine mfrs and ask their service reps. They will tell you the engines are designed to be operated at governed speeds, normally around 3600 rpm. Al Eden
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quote:
Broken S/G bracket, parts are not as redily avaliable, Hard to work on, built cheaper, Damaged heads, as in Mack's post, finiky carbeurators. Also, If you don't LET the rod break in a kohler, You wont have to fix it.
Graham, I have more than enough parts for my Briggs & Stratton engines.;):D:D Now Kolher engines I do not have many spare parts.;) Briggs & Stratton engines are not hard work on!;) I have never seen a broken Starter Generator bracket yet on any of my tractors,last count in Allis Chalmers & Simplicity tractors is 31.:D:D8D I get my nephew to count my tractors, gives him something to do.He is 6 years old and is my offical tractor testing,he seems to like my old sears custom 8 more than the rest of my tractors,has a Briggs & Stratton 8hp engine.:D karl [url]www.simplicityva.com[/url]
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Is there a best oil level for the KT17 series 2? Because I mow some 15 to 20 degree slopes, I have been keeping mine about 1/4" above full.
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Tom, As I understand it, the KT Series II solved the problem with a pressurized lubrication system. You shouldn't need to keep it over the full mark, and may actually risk blowing seals or something by doing so... Someone please correct me if I'm wrong here -- but I've never heard anyone recommend running above the full mark...
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quote:
Originally posted by Kent
Tom, As I understand it, the KT Series II solved the problem with a pressurized lubrication system. You shouldn't need to keep it over the full mark, and may actually risk blowing seals or something by doing so... Someone please correct me if I'm wrong here -- but I've never heard anyone recommend running above the full mark...
I've never heard of it either, especially when the engine already has pressurized oil. On my K series, when im running on a hill for a long time I do throw a bit of extra oil in, just incase.
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I've heard recommendations for overfilling on Series I KT's. I wish I had heard of it before my KT threw a rod. Maybe it would have saved me a motor....
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Well here is my 2 cents worth. I have a friend with a KT19 in a Toro front deck and when I did a valve job(at the his request) on it at 1000hrs. It still had cross hatch on both cylinders. The unit now has 1500+ hrs and is still going strong.But he does oil changes at recomended interval and keeps the cooling fins clean. On the other hand another friend had a K series 10hp and he thought he could treat it like a briggs and change the oil every other year and never clean the fins. Needless to say I had to replace that engine after it began to oil fog the yard as they mowed. But all his briggs he continues to use and not change the oil and they keep going and going. I on the other hand much perfer the Kohler engines and if you ever saw the stock hp #'s(what the engine is sticker at) that Kohlers produce compared to the briggs you would like the Kohler too.
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