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Stupid human (DPO) tricks! (now with pics)


JR

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I hauled the badly rotted 48" deck for my recently resurrected 416H into the shop this evening to try to figure out some way to salvage it. I started the dissassembly with the spindles. I pulled the belt and the blades and started on the spindle nuts. Got two of them off, but the last one wouldn't budge. After taking a closer look, I realized that what I thought was rust was actually weld![:0] WTH! I've rebuilt a lot of decks over the years, but this is the first time I've run across one with the spindle nut tack-welded to the pulley. I guess I shouldn't be too surprised considering that the blades I took off were ground down to slivers! Anyway, since I'm not that familiar with the decks for these tractors, I was wondering if it is a common problem for the nuts to work loose? Or was the DPO just a moron? The threads that are showing above the nut look fine, or I would be suspicious of a bad spindle shaft.
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I vote for moron. It's really funny how bad some people will butcher somethings when they think they are fixing stuff. I see it everyday at work.
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I THINK THOSE DECK SHELLS FOR THE 416 WHERE STILL AVAIABLE AT THE DEALER ABOUT $200.00. JJ
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Well, it just gets better and better.....not! I ground off the spot welds and pulled the pulley off the spindle. Looks like the DPO must have let the nut get loose and ran it that way for a while, which wallowed out the pulley and the top of the shaft. Then instead of fixing it right by replacing the shaft and the pulley, they got the bright idea of slobbering some weld on the top of the shaft, jamming the pulley back on (sans key, of course!), then putting the nut back on and tack-welded it to the pulley for good measure.:(! So now it looks like I also will need to get a spindle shaft on top of all the other stuff I need to do to this deck. Have you ever had one of those projects that you wish you'd never started?!?! I'm gonna try to add a couple of pics to show what I'm dealing with here. I'm known for being able to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, but I'm starting to wonder if this one's worth it. JJ, if what you say is true, that might be the best option unless I luck into a usable shell somewhere else. [img]/club2/attach/JR/416deck2.JPG[/img] I put the white material behind the deck so it would be easier to see how bad this thing is, but it still doesn't do it justice. :( [img]/club2/attach/JR/416deck1.JPG[/img]
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I have fixed alot of rusted decks but nothing as bad as what you have to deal with there...If it was me I think I would be hunting for something better to work with...
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Only way to fix that one is to plate the entire top area with a piece of metal. I have a 48 of the Simplicity type that is almost as bad. I was thinking about welding a plate on the top side, but cutting a radius around the spindle mounting areas so that they sat in the same orientation. This would reinforce the structure. I was then going to use something like plastic roof cement to seal the holes underneath to prevent moisture from continuing the rusting. I have used the roof cement under decks several times in the past. It actually cushions sand and gravel impacts and protects the deck pretty well.
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Yeah, Rod. That's pretty much the solution I had in mind, only I figured on doing it from the bottom. Then once all the holes and openings were tranferred to the new metal, I would simply cut out the old rotten remains from the top, and weld around the topside as well. A lot of work, but I don't see any other way. I've posted a want ad in the classifieds here, hoping to find another one in a bit better shape, but I'm not holding my breath. I guess I also need to post one for a spindle shaft too. Does anybody know if there was a Simplicity that used that same spindle shaft ? Or is this another "A-C only" part?
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John, I hate to say it, but I threw away a deck from a 410 just a month ago. The housing was much worse than yours, but if I still had it, I would give you the arbor shafts. Guess timing is everything. It had been sitting in the back yard for two years. Don't have any 300 or 400 series tractors myself, and nobody else ever needed any parts, so it went to the dump. Sorry!
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JR, If you think welding the nuts on the arbors is a doosey, wait till you run across one thats had the blades welded onto the shafts.[:0] I took one look at that one and just threw it away. Its always nice when they weld the differential hubs to the axles too....B) Some people should never be allowed near a welder...8)
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Well, in my maintenance work, I've seen some pretty stupid stuff too. And I certainly agree about some folks being banned from welder use! And Rod, that's the story of my life: usually a day late and a dollar short! It really sucks to miss out on that as they seem to be pretty proud of those shafts @ $40! And it looks like JJ is partially right. I did some checking today, and it is true that you can still get new deck shells for these tractors, but only if you want a 42". The 48" shell is NLA. So it looks like I'm SOL there. That only leaves lucking into a shell that's better than what I have, or rebuilding what I got. And since I've had no response yet from my classified ad, it looks like the rebuild is going to be my only option for this tractor. For now I'm looking into the idea of selling or trading my Farm King for another tractor of some kind with a 48" deck, just so I've got something bigger than a 42" for the less open areas I mow where the Yazoo is a bit too big. I like the fact that the Farm King has the hydraulic lift, 3-point, chains and blower, but the 42" deck just don't get it.
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Can't say as I blame the guy for welding that pulley to the shaft IF that's the only option left. I welded the spider gears to the shaft of the turntable of a 50 foot High Ranger (bucket type thing like the light company uses) one time because that was the only option left because we were out of resources. I was a little nervous pulling that stunt and thankfully it's still working after 5 or more years. This is a high dollar unit so I wouldn't get into too much of a huff about a pulley welded on the shaft of a mower deck if it makes it work especially if parts are NLA. Richard
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As you say, if the parts aren't available any longer, and you have to fix it any way you can.... But in this case the parts ARE still available, and I'm sure they were much cheaper back when this "fix" was done (several years ago) than they are now. It's the deck shell which is NLA. And right now, that's the bigger issue I'm facing.
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I also agree with Tiny. If the pulley and the shaft was bad. It did not hurt to weld them together. I'm a Maintenance Manager in a large bakery. Every hour of down time costs the company $10,000. On a regular basis we will weld a sprocket on a shaft and run it that way until we have the time and material to replace. I feel the real issue here is that you bought a deck that is unuseable. And for the problem of being able to locate a 48 inch deck instead of present 42 inch deck. That means instead of covering area in 7 passes with mower ,it will take 8 passes. I bet your time is cheaper than a new deck or mower.
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I have one of those decks. Came off of a 312. Same deck. Its in pretty good shape if your interested. Spindles are good. Deck has a little rust but not much. ddh
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I've done the welded nut a couple times myself,most recently on a Simp deck.Nut had run loose and boogered up the spindle threads beyond help,but w/o lockwasher would snug up.So..it was a decision of $40+ and shipping time to order/replace/rebuild quill or .00 to burn it down for now and fix correctly next winter when not mowing. Not proper I realize but got er done for now.
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quote:
Originally posted by Charlieson
I have one of those decks. Came off of a 312. Same deck. Its in pretty good shape if your interested. Spindles are good. Deck has a little rust but not much. ddh
Sent you a PM.
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On ebay ALLIS CHALMERS 310 SIMPLICITY MOWER DECK 42 [url]http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7703467443&category=82242&rd=1[/url]
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That is one sieve of a mower deck. The tooling to punch and stamp-out new 48 inch mower deck shells could reach $500,000 then the run time and storage of those shells would also add up. Adapting a new style deck off any tractor to this old design would be a far beneficial path to pursue if the 42 inch available deck is unacceptable.
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That's the whole issue. I already had two 42" mowers, and with my 3 acres I really needed a tractor with a deck in the 48" range. I started fixing up the 416 because I knew it had a 48" deck, however by the time I realized just how bad the deck really was (IOW, when I finally cleaned off all the dirt, leaves, and debris from setting in the weeds for 5-6 years), I already had the tractor pretty much done. So here I was with a (now) good running 416 (418?) with a swiss-cheese deck. I've pretty much given up on finding a better 48" deck within driving distance, so I've already started the rebuild process. I've cut a piece of steel to fit, and have it fitted in place and cut the holes for the spindle housings and have most of the holes drilled. Still have a lot of work to do, and need to find another spindle shaft, but for now I have another tractor to use. Unfortunately it's not a A-C/Simplicity tho. I traded my Farm King with the 42" deck for a Cub Cadet 1650 this evening. It has a 16hp Kohler, hydro, hydraulic lift, electric PTO, 50" deck, and a snowthrower. It's a bit rough, but runs well and mows good. I gotta go back tommorow evening, cause the guy also gave me a Gravely rear-engine tractor. It also has a 50" deck, 4-speed with shuttle and hi-lo, and hydraulic lift. Has a bad Kohler single, but I'm thinking about yanking the 14hp off the Jacobsen for it, or maybe putting one of my KT17's back together. I've always been kinda fascinated with these tractors, so I figure it should be an interesting project.
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I guess if i were going to rebuild a mower deck i would go so far as to use paper machea to follow the contours of arbor to base flared edge in servaral positions then bend metal to fit attach wire for width and depth and lay strips of metal to follow the same mold. tack and weld. I know this is expensive and time consumming but you will learn a lot about model making, and have the right to say you built the deck your self.
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