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Please help! My 7117 won't start!


hufhouse

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All of a sudden, my normally reliable 7117 won't start. Original KT-17 Series II engine. Let me review... About a week ago, I decided to do a little maintenance. So, I changed the oil, greased a few zerks, changed to sharper blades, and sprayed some degreaser on the engine and rinsed it off. Since that last process usually scares me a little bit (water around engine), I decided to take the tractor out for a 15-20 minute ride around the yard to dry off the engine. The tractor started right up, and I mowed a small section of yard that really didn't need it, and I put the tractor away. Today, I went out to cut the grass, filled up the tank, checked the oil, cleaned the dead grass off the engine screen, and jumped on the tractor for what I thought would be two hours of mowing and Cleveland Indians baseball on my headphones. I turned the key and the engine turned over normally. Usually, the engine starts in about three revolutions. This time, it just kept turning over and never showed any signs of starting. I got off and figured that maybe the spark plug wires had some corrosion from the recent cleaning, so I took them off and sprayed them with some WD-40 and cleaned the tops of the plugs with steel wool. I checked any other visible connections and everything looked fine. Jumped back on the tractor and same thing. It turned over fine, but showed no sign of starting. Eventually, I ran down the battery trying to start it. So, I pushed the tractor out of the barn and pulled up my car next to it to give it a jump. This time, though, I checked all the electrical connections more thoroughly, and also cleaned the battery terminals with terminal cleaner. I cleaned the connection where the ground meets the engine, too. I also removed the battery and disassembled, cleaned and reassembled the block where the hot wire attaches behind the "dashboard." I removed and cleaned the plugs. I hooked up the jumper cables and all I can get now is a click (like that from a solenoid) from behind the "dashboard." I waited with the jumper cables on for several minutes, and still just that same click. When I turn the key to "on", the ampmeter goes down to about -5, and then it goes down to about -10 when I try to start the engine and get that click. I have tried everything I can think of. I removed the shroud and took a look at the starter. One thing I noticed was that the started teeth were engaged in the gear. That surprised me. I took a screwdriver and gently moved the teeth from the large gear back against the starter. Still no change. Just that same click. I have unplugged and plugged every electrical connection I could find. I've jiggled and wiggled everything to no avail. I welcome any ideas you might have for what to try next.
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Change to a 16 hp Briggs Just kidding, but if the shoe was on other foot, Advice would be replace with Kohler. Pull the plugs out and seee if it turns over. I've had KT's lock up when I did not shut off fuel line. There is also good chance that you fried the starter. You 'll have to raise motor to remove it. None of this addresses initial problem of not starting. But Kohlers like a strong fully charged battery.
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Hi, Once one of these inertia drive starters, Briggs, Tecumseh and many Kohlers are engaged they stay engaged until the engine starts and the flywheel then kicks the gear out because it is running faster and the starter is stopping. Any time after you try to start one of these engines the gear will be engaged until they start. There is a good chance the starter is trashed. If it cranked for a long time. Any starters should not be cranked for more than 30 seconds with out a 5 minute cool down period. Back to your problem. If you take the battery out and connect the ground (neg) jumper cable to the engine somewhere where you can get a good connection. Next take the positive jumper cable and touch it to the terminal on the solenoid that goes to the starter. If the starter is good, sparks will fly when you touch it, but the starter should turn over. If it doesn't you will have to pull the engine 1/2 out, so you can tip it up and get the starter off. Put nuts on the thru bolts to hold the starter together. Connect the jumper cables to the starter and see if it works. Then you can pull the starter open and see what is wrong. I would certainly try to repair it if possible. We fix a lot of these small engine starters, but if the armature is burned, they aren't worth fixing. We can sell you a brush and bushinig kit for it if you can't find it locally. If the starter is bad, let us know and I will try to help you. As far as the engine, I would suspect you have no spark and that some moisture got in the condensor. This would be the most likely failure I would suspect, with info you have provided. Good Luck. Al Eden
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Al, thanks for the big help. I tried what you said with the jumper cables, and the engine didn't turn over. So, I dove into "pulling the engine 1/2 out" which seemed like a job that was way over my head. I was pleased when I took off four bolts, gave a little lift and set the engine enough on its side to work on the starter. As soon as I removed the shroud to get a good look at the starter, I smelled that "electrical burning" smell really strongly. When I took out the through bolts and pulled off the starter, it kind of fell apart in my hands. I looked at it, and there are wires from the windings that are sticking out here and there. It looks pretty bad and smells even worse. I didn't even bother hooking the jumper cables to the starter. I called my local hardware store (actually a John Deere dealer, but I have a great relationship with all of the people there). I asked if they sold this particular starter (because I figured I would just go ahead and replace it and move on). They said to bring the starter to them to see if they can repair it for me. That's where I am headed as soon as I finish this reply. I have another question, though. When I picked up the engine to work on the starter, I noticed that the motor mount nearest the starter is broken off. Also, the two bolts on the opposite side motor mounts were very loose when I removed them. Will I be ok with only three motor mounts if I tighten everything down correctly? BTW, Al, don't think your time is wasted on me! I've got your website saved as a favorite for the day when this engine gives up the ghost. I'm actually looking forward to "repowering" with one of those 18 HP Magnums with your kit!
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I dropped off the starter at the local Hardware. The guy behind the desk pulled it apart and gave a whistle. He looked up the starter to see the price new (about $190) and said that he could probably get the parts to rebuild it. I can get a new starter tomorrow or, if he can get the parts, a rebuild in two days at about $60-$70. The new starter is warrantied for 90 days, the rebuild for a year. The rebuild sounds good, if he can get the parts. I just hope that whatever caused the engine to not start originally yesterday has magically fixed itself by the time I get the new starter installed. I'm really hoping it was a moisture problem that I have already addressed or that has cured itself with a little additional time. I'll let you know. In the meantime, any info I can get about the broken motor mount from the post above would be appreciated.
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Did you check the oil level? once you get the starter back, you need to check if its a spark or gas problem. Thats is when you crank it do you get spark from the spark plug wire to ground. I believe KT is battery ignition. maybe you got some water into your points If you have spark, remove a spark plug and Put a little gas in the cylinder. Replace the sparkplug and crank. If she fires you have a gas problem.
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I checked the oil level yesterday, and it was right where I filled it to last week. Just a hair above full. (Not enough above to worry about, though.) Based ont the timing of this happening (right after I used degreaser and hose to clean the engine), I'm pretty sure the starting problem was something having to do with moisture. When I get the starter back on, if it doesn't start right away, I'm going to try blow-drying the points and condenser, or I might even consider replacing them. I've owned the tractor for 4-5 years, and they haven't been replaced in that time, so for a few bucks it can't hurt. Chances are, after all this time of messing with the engine and spraying WD-40 all over the place, the original starting problem may have fixed itself. We'll see. I'll definitely be checking for spark at the plugs, though. If I don't have spark, I'll pretty much know there is moisture in the condenser or points. Anybody have any thoughts about the broken motor mount? Should I be worried?
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Guy, I have worked around broken motor mounts before. If the other mounts are not cracked, then I usually make a clamp to hold the broken corner against the frame. A piece of thick flat plate with a hole for the mounting bolt, that will overlap and clamp the part where the mount broke off, to the frame.
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Sooner or later the motor will come out for repair, and you can have a new leg welded in place. I had one mount broke off also, the other three held it steady. They lasted better than the motor. Pulled motor out , had new mount welded in place, had motor rebuilt $780. After reinstalling and running for 15 minutes had oil leak, it smoked before. Wish I had stuck money towards one of Al's kits or maybe the Briggs Vanguard.
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Ambler (or anybody else): Tell me about this gas in the oil problem. I don't have the new starter yet (they couldn't rebuild the old one after all), so I went out tonight to tinker around and get the engine all ready for the new starter. (BTW, I've decided to replace the points and condenser while I'm doing this other stuff). Anyway, I noticed the gas level was down in the tank about 1/2 inch. Since I still have the engine laying crooked, I couldn't check the oil level. However, I pulled the dipstick and THOUGHT I smelled gasoline. Could just be my imagination, though. Is there something wrong to alow this to happen? Do I need to install some kind of shutoff valve or something? Fill me in.
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Hi, There are 3 paths for gas to get in the crankcase. 1 Ther fuel pump diaphram may have a leak in it and with the tank higher than the pump, gas will run in. 2. The float valve in the carb may be leaking, this will let fuel flow through the fuel pump and into the carb, down the manifold into the cylinders and past the rings into the crankcase. 3. Running if the air cleaner is plugged, or choke is on can run so rich the crankcase will get gas in it. We put a lot of inline valves on tractors, and tell people to shut them off when they put them in the shed. Prevents this. If you have a bad pump, pinch off the out put hose and using a thumb pump, or an automotive hand pressure pump. Pressure the input line with about 5 lbs of pressure. If it doesn't hold and drops, leaky diaphram or loose body screws, tighten and recheck. Al Eden
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I had an incident earlier where the float valve stuck and the crankcase and cylinders filled up with gas. Then the starter couldn't turn over the engine. http://www.simpletractors.com/club2/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=49982 I believe in shutoff valves now.
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To check for gas in the oil remove the dip stick and take a lighter and hold the flame on the oil at the end of the stick. If it burns there is gas in the oil.
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