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Unofficial Home of Old Simplicity & Allis-Chalmers Garden Tractors

Manuals, Diagrams


dirtboyjohn

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I'm putting together a new website for the purpose of helping people find Owner's Manuals, Parts Diagrams, and other reference material for their Outdoor Power Equipment. Preferably, free and online. Simple Tractors is cited as a reference a few times, and probably will be a few more times as I build out the site. [url]http://www.johnfvining.com/partslookup/index.htm[/url] If anyone has any input, advice, corrections, additional links, etc. to offer, it would be appreciated, especially from knowledgeable people such as use this forum, and especially as to who built what for whom. I hope people find it useful. Mucho Thanko.
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If you want me to remove any or all reference to Simple Tractors, I will be happy to do so. It is not my intention to rip off other people's material. I feel I had properly attributed the source of publicly available material, and included Simple's home page, in the belief that doing so may send more viewers to your site. Further, I posted on this forum, and have a Feedback form on the site, so that, among other things, people who feel as you do could let me know. As far as doing it for gain, I can only hope that someday the ads will pay for cost of the site - as yet, they do not. Let me know if you want me to remove references to Simple and any of its material, either here or through my site's feedback form.
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Kent is the owner of SimpleTrACtors that is his call. As far as the club it would have been nice if you asked permission of the paid members first (of which you are not one). Simpletractors and Simplicity and Allis Chalmers Garden tractor club are two different & separate entities.
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In deference to your sensitivities, I have removed the reference to the instructions you wrote, and have written my own. As before, if anyone has any input, advice, corrections, additional links, etc. to offer, it would be appreciated. The updated section is at: http://www.johnfvining.com/partslookup/S.htm#Simplicity You may feel free to link a reference to the site without prior approval, membership, or dues at any time. Thank You for your patience.
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John, ;)With the short tour of your site that I took, I'd be happy to swap links with you. :DWould you please PM me all the legal forums, 12 copies of each. All signed and notarized:D. Maynard, I have had a link here, most likely sense I first found Simple Tractors. You have just made me re-think ALL of my links. Joe
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Joe I do not have a problem with linking the site. It was the posting of direct links to info posted for club use with out asking to a site that is for gain. The Simple task of asking solves a lot of problems before they occur
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Joe, Thanks. My legal staff, Perry and Della, will be drawing up the necessary papers as soon as they solve 'The Case of the Missing Link' in a dramatic courtroom reveal. Paul Drake, their private investigator, in running a background check on you, has found you to be an admirable individual with impeccable credentials. Maynard, I fail to understand the logic in your opinion regarding 'posting of direct links to info posted for club use with out asking to a site that is for gain'. First of all, the document in question was posted in a public area available to anyone with a browser. If you had intended it to be solely for club use you might have posted it in a log-in-required or members only area. Second, regarding 'a site that is for gain': I infer that you feel non-profit organizations, charities, and the like do not need to ask permission, but all others do need to ask. Where did you come up with a theory like that? Where did you get the idea that anyone has to ask permission to post a link to any published document. Reprinting, or including a document within another document, on the other hand is a different matter. Third, regarding 'direct link': What other kind of link would anyone use? Would you expect anyone to post a link to, for example, a forum's home page and instruct the viewer to go find the document on his or her own? Lastly, it seems you should have a HUGE problem with Google. It is a 'for gain' site that posts links to dang near everything, and they don't ask for permission. And then they sell that information to others again 'for gain'. Write to them and ask them to ask.
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I've intentionally stayed out of this, since I have no problems with links to Simple trACtors. However, links to information in the clubhouse is a different story....
quote:
Originally posted by dirtboyjohn
I fail to understand the logic in your opinion regarding 'posting of direct links to info posted for club use with out asking to a site that is for gain'. First of all, the document in question was posted in a public area available to anyone with a browser. If you had intended it to be solely for club use you might have posted it in a log-in-required or members only area. Second, regarding 'a site that is for gain': I infer that you feel non-profit organizations, charities, and the like do not need to ask permission, but all others do need to ask. Where did you come up with a theory like that? Where did you get the idea that anyone has to ask permission to post a link to any published document. Reprinting, or including a document within another document, on the other hand is a different matter. Third, regarding 'direct link': What other kind of link would anyone use? Would you expect anyone to post a link to, for example, a forum's home page and instruct the viewer to go find the document on his or her own? Lastly, it seems you should have a HUGE problem with Google. It is a 'for gain' site that posts links to dang near everything, and they don't ask for permission. And then they sell that information to others again 'for gain'. Write to them and ask them to ask.
Well, for one thing, there's this info at the bottom of EVERY screen in the clubhouse: © Simplicity & Allis-Chalmers Garden Tractor Club, Inc. This is a restricted site. Members have full access but visitors may only browse limited portions of the site. That should give some clues that this information isn't "in the public domain" and free for everyone to use as they'd like... The information that is disclosed in publicly-acessible areas is there for only one purpose -- to show the possible value of joining the club and to entice people into joining. It is not there to gain traffic or make money for some other site... BTW, 1. Copyright and "intellectual property" are two different things. Something can be considered intellectual property without being labeled with a copyright, and something that is copyrighted may not necessarily be intellectual property.... 2. Google robots are prevented from searching this clubhouse, and I'm trying to figure out how to do that for the pesky MSN bots... 3. Also, Maynard is correct in the perspective that Simple trACtors and this Clubhouse are two separate entities, one a for-profit and one a private non-profit organization, managed by different officers, and subject to different copyrights, etc....
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I agree completely that the material is copyrighted. I further agree that it is not in the public domain. Virtually all original material published on the web is automatically protected by copyright law. It is protected whether or not it displays a copyright symbol or statement. You should know, however, that the act of publishing material on the web implicitly grants permission to link to it. That, after all, is the basic nature and purpose of the web. The publisher, if he so chooses, may prominently post a statement explicitly indicating the he does not wish links to be made to the material, or make other limitations. However, even then, one website knowingly posting a link to another website that denies permission is not necessarily infringing on copyright protection. It depends on the circumstances. Being a non-profit weakens copyright protection since there is less to protect. Profits? Advertising revenue? Being a discussion forum or a public forum weakens protection. The www itself is a public forum. Think about it. Remember, we are not talking about copying ,reproducing, altering, or concealing or misrepresenting authorship of, any material. We are talking about linking to a document displayed on the web in its original form, context and location. They are vastly different issues. You would have a very difficult time trying to make a valid claim of copyright infringement against anyone simply linking to the club. I have removed the link as a simple courtesy. But that isn't what my question is about. It is about 'Why?'. Why would you not want links made to the club? Why would you care if the linking site is for gain or not? Why would you display material on the web, then claim it is for members' use, while also stating visitors may browse? Why would you not want Google or other search engines to crawl the site? What is your rationale?
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