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tej

Engine Conversions

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BradW
I am going to move the exhaust pipes around on my 912 hydro and put in a 16 horsepower 2 cylinder briggs engine, I will drop it into my B-10 and see if it fits and then I can tell you,I have the original engine out of it now I will try tommorrow and post good luck, -BradW

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tej
Greg, I haven't been able to find any good used engines of the size we need. Thought I had a line on one about a month ago but didn't pan out. The guy I normally get stuff from has a Bolens boneyard and most Bolens have Wisconsin engines. I have looked at the Wisconsin engines and that would be a difficult conversion to get one in a B AC..

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Floydster
Tim, When I bought my B112, I was told by Bob Winter (club member) that he had seen a B112 with that very engine (16 hp) and it worked out quite well. I was thinking of buying one from Northern Tool for $900 + shipping. I investigated, and found that in addition to the engine, there is an adapter kit that is needed to use the engine with the Simplicity drive shaft system. I probably wrote this information down somewhere, but in case I can't find it, contact B&S support, and they can get the part number for you. As far as the fit in the engine bay, I did some rough measurements, but didn't get too far with this. I don't even remember if the mounting holes lined up. I wouldn't be surprised if there is some hood interference though. Even a 32 CI L-head won't fit quite right because of the larger air filter housing. (but I guess that's easy to fix) Greg

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Al
Tim, In response to your question, I have not messed with any of the older square hooded tractors and re-powers, except in about 72 when Briggs came out with the 326400 16hp and I put one in each of my 2 yr old 3212s for a tune-up kit. I might do something later, and we would look at all engines, to see what we thought was the best alternative. Currently we are looking only at EPA approved engines and are looking at what we think will be the power of the hour in the future. Time is a factor as we are working on 3 John Deere models, the AC 616/620, which is becoming a bear, we had 3 different engines in it last week and none are an easy trip, Ariens and some industrial units. We are not interested in developing a kit for a tractor, temp and load testing it, making drawings for all the parts, going out and getting bids on the fab. parts and having the engine fall out of favor in a couple of years only to repeat all of the developement work. This is why we are not looking at any of the flat head engines. If they are not now out of production, in about 1 more year they will be. The Briggs horizontal twin is breathing its last breaths now and for that reason we have done a Vangard install in a 5216, a very nice installation. We don't have the documentation done yet, but could generate a procedure and kit fairly quickly and the drawings to match. We only sell the kits with the engines because we pick a certain spec engine and build around it, then everything in the kit works. There a lot of engines available and there a lot of differences. For example some of the engines for the Haulmaster trucks have had to have kits put in to "warm" them up, if the operators just putsy around with them, they run so cool they foul the plugs, and run gas in the crankcase. If you took one of these engines and put it in a tractor and mowed with it with the restricted ducting and carb change you would smoke it. If you put a regular engine in an application that NEEDS a ducted engine you will burnit up becauase you will recycle the exhaust heat, unless you address the ducting problems. Unless it is caused by sone part that failed,like a fan for ex.,engines that fail from overheating are not warantied by the engine manufactures. Things like inadequate air intake or heat dispersion, fins or flywhell screen restricted with grass, mowing at part throttle instead of governed speed are considered customer abuse or neglect. Any of you dealers that have been to the factory failure analysis schools can verify this. When it comes to engine failures needing a short block, a representative is sent to the dealership to make the decision if it is waranty or not. It is VERY important, particularly on surplus engines that you know what you are getting and what it is set up for. Variations of this type are why there all of the spec and type numbers for these engines. If I get a little time, I'll set a couple of engines in my old 3212 and let you know how tough it looks, at the moment it is not something I have time to look at. Thanks for asking. Good luck, Al

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tej
I think someone said you also had to relocate the oil filter off the side of the engine and frame mount it somewhere. Greg, I have also been looking at engines in the Northern catalog. I would think that the V-twin would not be as tall as the 12hp single unless they stuck alot of stuff on top of the engine.

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JCS
Tim, I think I was concerned because the vanguard engine appears to be a bit wider overall. As you know, the head of the L-head fits up under the hood, while the head of the twin might not. But since I have absolutely no experience with this, I can only defer you to B&S tech support, or maybe call Simplicity as mentioned by BillC. Al also has some info in a previous thread about engine adaptations for other models. He has personal experience. He put his phone number up in the message, so maybe call him. I can't even remember if I found good dimensions for the Vanguard. I sort of remember that I couldn't find anything real useful. Compare this to Honda's web page, where every conceivable dimension is given (looks like a CAD drawing), albeit in metric. I'm not aware of a Honda solution though... I recall you offering to help me find an engine in your neck of the woods last year when I was looking for one. Are they all dried up, or do you need something with pressure lubrication? Greg[A href='http://www.simpletractors.com/clubhouse/ShowMessage.asp?MsgID=2273&mode=short&startwith=0']http://www.simpletractors.com/clubhouse/ShowMessage.asp?MsgID=2273&mode=short&startwith=0[/a]

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Del
I have successfully put a Briggs Vanguard in a Sovereign 3416h. Most of the tweaks have been touched on above, oil filter relocation, exhaust, plate to align driveshaft, and cooling fan. It runs like a champ. I could provide pictures if interested. I obtained the necessary simplicity/briggs numbers from Mike at simplicity as above. I do remember it was easiest for the 16hp, and that the 18-20hp vanguards required more 'fitting'. The power difference from the old briggs 16hp single cast iron is nice. The vanguard is also quietier and smoother. I did also purchase the vanguard from northern. Jim Doran

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