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SMC17

I'm hearing a funny sound from my 620!

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SMC17
Ok so Tuesday I finished the new Honda install and took it for a spin. Everything seemed fine. Put the hood on yesterday and installed the front PTO key fired it up and I'm getting a strange sound from the area around the clutch pulley assembly. It's hard to identify where the noise is coming from but it sounds like a slight vibrating thump/rub. If I disengage the clutch (push petal down) it goes away. I noticed in the archives that the clutch pulley bearings are a weak point that frequently go bad. Could this be my problem? I'd like to try to bounce this off the group before I tear into the tractor again. To summarize: Pulleys seem to be aligned correctly. I will check with a straight edge when I get a chance. Noise goes away when I depress clutch Tractor still functions but I'm afraid to test it more without feedback. I'll snap some pictures and post in this thread soon. Thanks, Sean

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JP
Hi Sean, The problem is the Honda's too quiet! LOL Did you happen to check the bearings on the clutch layshaft? (behind the bottom double belt pulley). Also sometimes I get a little over zealous when putting the dual belts on & one is over the belt guard instead of under it. It makes a screaming sorta noise (Until I dive for the off switch! LOL) Let us know what you find! JP

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SMC17
JP, I didn't check the bearings/bushings before I put on the belts but after researching the archives I noticed that this is a possible source of my noise. I'm hoping that this is the cause because it would be cheap. Someone also mentioned the bearings in the yoke that connects to the hydro pump. I really hope I haven't stripped the splines on the clutch shaft assembly because that part is listed at $100. Ouch! I'll make sure that the belt guard is in the correct position. Thanks for the reply.

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eagle5473
Sean When we had the belts off I tought the lower drive pully bearing had some play in it before we put the belts on but we could not find a greese fitting to pump any greese into it.........

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Guest
quote:
Originally posted by eagle5473
Sean When we had the belts off I tought the lower drive pully bearing had some play in it before we put the belts on but we could not find a greese fitting to pump any greese into it.........
It probably wouldn't have done any good if you found one. I think the bearings are the sealed type

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swede
Don't let those bearings get any worse or you will grind the splines off the pulley. (It happened to me!) You can peal off the rubber seal from the inside of each bearing and leave the outside alone to keep the dirt out. Then drill and tap for a grease fitting right in the middle of the tube. Make sure you do this where the fitting is easy to get to so you can grease it once in awhile.

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D-17_Dave
Loose bearings may be the problem, however don't jump to concltions. Check all the possiblities before jumping to any conclutions. 1-You swapped the engine and now you have a noise. Is the engine tourqeing or moveing any when you depress the clutch? This may cause some rubbing or something that didn't exist untill the swap. 2-As JP said, the noise level of the new engine may have unmasked some other problem. Look at the everything that is capable of moveing. Like the front clutch rubbing the clutch brake if so equiped. Other things including the bearings in the clutch drive. Also possibly makeing a clicking could be the ends of the bolts on the layshaft. They have a tight clearance between the cast houseing and worn bearings as well as tight splines pushing the disc's into the cast houseing holding the bearings and the rubbing could be the clicking. Realeasing the belt tention may may allow it to look like they aren't close enough to rub but a gentle pry on th pulley and the opposite end beside the disc will show any endplay. 3-Check everything for being tight. The swap may have shown something up, but it may be something you didn't touch in the driveline like the bolts on the addapter going onto the hydro input shaft. A lot of this can be checked from the bottom by removeing the belly cover and a good light. A total dissasembly wouldn't be required untill you determine what you need. Also, most testing could probably be done with the engine off. I don't recomend sticking anything into any driveline while it's being engine driven. Good luck, I know you spent a lot of money and it's easy to jump to conclutions after dropping that much. Maybe it's not as bad as you think.

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SMC17
Guys thanks for all the suggestions. Pics are coming I'm doing Mr. Mom for the night. I also thought that the new quieter engine could be making it easier to spot a past problem. Since the bearing for the clutch are cheap and rated for only 500 hours I ordered some new bearings and some other misc. parts from SEPW today. They already shipped them so I should be in business soon. Dave I agree on not jumping to conclusions I can't see any visual evidence of the noise and can't pin point its exact origin I'll take off the belly plate and see if the noise is more identifyible. I'm going to grease things up and change the hydro oil/filters next. I don't have trained ears but I now know where to focus on. Aaron, I thought the play was in the rear pto shaft? You also thought there was some play in the clutch drive? I'm going to take off the belts (pain in the ^%$^%$)if the grease/oil change doesn't fix things and check for play. Is it side to side play I'm looking for or front/back? That should keep me busy. Wish me luck. Sean

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quote:
Originally posted by swede
Don't let those bearings get any worse or you will grind the splines off the pulley. (It happened to me!) You can peal off the rubber seal from the inside of each bearing and leave the outside alone to keep the dirt out. Then drill and tap for a grease fitting right in the middle of the tube. Make sure you do this where the fitting is easy to get to so you can grease it once in awhile.
The replacement bearings I received from Simplicity have a steel not rubber seal. Regardless, wouldn't it be more prudent to just change the bearings. They don't cost that much.

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D-17_Dave
quote:
Originally posted by SMC17
Is it side to side play I'm looking for or front/back? That should keep me busy. Wish me luck. Sean
Sean, look for both. If you have side to side play you have probably already chewed the shaft up as the nut holding the pulley on also holds the preload against the bearings. If you have side play the bearings would be almost fell apart and I figure you would have seen this sooner. End play is a more likely candidate.

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eagle5473
Sean, Yes it did appear that the rear PTO shaft did also have some extra play init as well, but that would not go away when you depress the clutch, as it is bolted directly to the driveshaft. My bet is the lower clutch bearings from having looked at the tractor.....

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SMC17
Finally got some time to tear down the clutch and of course we have a surprise. Yes there is side to side play in the clutch pulley but It looks like the previous owner decided to weld the pulley to the assembly. Pics attached. Let me know what you guys think I should do. Bite the bullet and buy a new clutch arm or stay with the setup I have and live with the noise and hope I don't damage the hydro. Thanks, Sean

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SMC17
A couple of notes on the pics. I wanted to give everyone an idea of the fit on the tractor. There's lots of extra room on either side of the engine but front to back is very tight. You do have to turn the front PTO pulley around so it will fit in the belt slot. Also notice the mounted rectifier on the last pic. I'm happy if only I could get rid of that noise and mount my plow for the upcoming storm.

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D-17_Dave
Sean, first off, try editing your post and put a space between each pic. This will line things up and keep them from being bunched up. as for the clutch, he obviously had trouble keeping the nut tight. I would grind off the welld. This should let you separate the nut without damageing the shaft. Then you can rebuild the assembly. It may be that the shaft is already damaged but replaceing it and a nut plus some bearings is cheap insurance from haveing a catastrophic problem w/ it comeing apart.

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SMC17
I broke the weld. I had a bad feeling that the weld was something more than an unruly nut. The pulley would not come off after I took off the nut so I rapped it with a rubber mallet several times until it started to move and finally came loose. Stripped splines were the culprit but not on the shaft. The double pulley teeth are stripped. I've got to lean on you guys again to point me in the right direction. Seems that a previous owner stripped the pulley and then used something like epoxy or JB Weld and the welded nut to hold the clutch assembly together. I cleaned up the pulley and shaft (splines look to be in decent shape) and there is slight slippage where they mate. What to do? It looks like finding a new input pulley is going to be an adventure. Can something be machined to insert into the pulley? Where should I look for a new/used input pulley? Thanks, Sean

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SMC17
Score! Thanks to Dave suggesting I contact Sandy Lake I called them up and they had a used pulley. Best $50 I've spent. Now the waiting begins. I'll keep ya informed on my progress. Quick question. What is the best way to pull the bearings and bushings out of the clutch assembly? They seem to be in there very snug. Sean

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D-17_Dave
Once you remove the pulley, drive the shaft out. Since your replaceing it, being gentle isn't a factor. Although normally the shaft will pull out with little resistance. Next, the bearing spacer between the bearings will move aside once you move either bearing some allowing you to drive out the bearing with a punch or a drift. Reassembly is easily just reverseing the order. There are differing opinions as to whether to remove the bearing inner seals and installing a grease zerk for lubeing the bearings. I wouldn't remove the seal, but I would install a grease zerk and fill the void area w/ grease so moister can't collect. Be mindfull not to overfill the cavity as the grease will exspand and could end up on your new belts.

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