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RayS

Copyright violation ???

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RayS
I saw this eBay auction and I was not aware that you could download copies of Simplicity manuals from their website to sell them on eBay. I maybe wrong but I wasn`t aware that Simplicity sold copies of them either on CD`s. They seem to have quite a few of them forsale. I emailed the seller, I hope that we all don`t loose the luxury of a free dowload because of this. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7730123975&ssPageName=MERC_VI_ReBay_Pr4_PcY_BIN_Stores_IT

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clyde
I see he has pulled this one. The Simplicity site doesn't seem to have any restrictions - they even suggest copying the documents to your computer - but I doubt they meant for anyone to do this!

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RayS
I highly doubt that they want anyone besides themselves to profit from there material. Here is the email response that I got back from him. "the manuals that i sell are old vintage, the copyright has expired years ago"

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PhanDad
Doesn't seem right to me either. He still has others for sale. And unless one of the manufacturers gets after him, I bet he'll keep on selling them to those who don't know about the free downloads.

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Morris
It is a copyright violation, not because he has downloaded them, but because he is selling for a profit. Media corporations (movie studios, etc.) have been pushing for bans on copying anything, even for home use, since this kind of thing happens. And I doubt the copyrights have expired, if so, someone could then claim the rights by filing a new copyright and selling for a profit.

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Tom Deutsch
the Simplicity website (where you get the downloads) is ITSELF copyrighted. In other words, as Ray S points out, Simplicity could at any time turn off this downloading feature. Also, the fact that these materials are old doesn't make any difference. Simplicity still owns current copyright on the brand name "Simplicity" which appears on these materials. A person cannot legally reproduce multiple copies and sell them for profit, as I gather this creep on E-bay is doing. :(! If you sell someone a tractor, then yes, you could download a copy, print it out, and include it with the tractor (adding to its value). One tractor, one license. If you wanted a copy in your house, and one in the shop, that would also be ok, because this would be duplication for personal use. I'm in advertising/communications, not a lawyer, but what I've outlined is typically what companies tolerate when they extend the courtesy of backdated materials via a publicly-accessible website. I suggest we watch this seller, and anytime he does this, we contact the high bidders and let them know where they can get it for free. Even if I'm wrong and what this guy is doing IS legal, I'm sure none of us like seeing people get hoodwinked! After all, if someone is tech-savvy enought to get to E-bay, they can just as easily get to the Simplicity website!

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AGCO918
These people are the ones that ruin it for the rest of us Honest people.Everybody is out to make a buck.I like your idea about somebody emailing the bidders and letting them know about the free downloads.We have to look out for each other.

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Woodydel
It might be that none of you has been given the "right" to even print the documents: "Adobe Acrobat Reader is required to view the PDF documents and can be downloaded free from Adobe here" The quote is from Simplicity's download page. The key word is VIEW. COPYRIGHT LIMITS (general): [url]http://www.copyright.cornell.edu/training/Hirtle_Public_Domain.htm[/url] The Ebayer is making money by performing a service. Placing the information on a CD for your convenience. He may be in violation of copyright law BUT Simplicity hasn't been impacted financially. It's FREE for the taking in the first place. Simplicity charges you for PRINTING a manual. I purchase my manuals from Simplicity. Always have. It's not worth the paper, ink and time to print out large manuals. If I'm in a bind and can't find or don't have a manual then I greatly appreciate their placing of the manuals online for immediate reading. I believe Simplicity's intention is just this, for individuals to view the manuals electronically. Maybe everyone is commiting a copyright violation by printing manuals according to what is written on the Simplicity site.

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Chris727
Has anyone asked Simplicity's technical publications department about this? I know I've seen CD's for many brands of tractors but never until now the individual manuals, usually they are CD's containing all the manuals for a specific brand, many of which may not be available from the manufacturer or are copies of CD's dealers may recieve. These would not have been downloaded off a manufacturers site but are more likely to have been obtained through companies such as those who used to supply microfiche but now supply CD's instead. I don't think there is anything wrong with that, but in this specific ebay listing I would think this manual was downloaded from the Simplicity site and could be violating some law.

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darryl2005
I too was unaware you could download these for free, however, I actually purchased one of these CDs. I find it was scanned from an actual used manual and not a download. I find these originals had no copyright markings on them, having owned a few original myself. I did some more research and at the us copyright office and find that these early manuals were originally published without notice, and without subsequent registration, making them public domain documents .

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darryl2005
I believe you are correct about the downloaded manuals from simplicity, however, I doubt they would use a greasy fingerprinted manual for public download, the CD I bought was definately made from a used manual, it appears to me that the fellow makes his own PDF files from used manuals and does not download them from my vantage point.. Perhaps he does not know about the free service, Ill contact him and see what he says. It just seemd to me everybody was quick to accuse and did not have all the facts. Today I looked thru my collection of older simplicity originals and note that they are not copyrighted for whatever reason. I note that some tractor companies did note copyright on their manuals, such as yardman, but the older simplicity manuals have no such notations. I wonder why?

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dhardin
If a Simplicity was to put a copyright on a manual (and they could), they would have the responsablity to keep it honored. Chasing down ever elligal manual would not be worth the bad feeling you would get over the long run. I think Simplicity is in the tractor business and hope to gain interested coustomers with there great service and not try to make there money from there manuals. Having said that... Now if the e-bay seller of these manuals was to gain a sizable profit (tens of thousunds of $) form Simpicitys manuals it might be a different story. Or motivate Simpicity to do a better job of making there product/manuals available to the consumer. This is just my opinion, hope not upset anyone.

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