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quantico

Hydro identification / name that hydro

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quantico
I have a hydro in a 1988 deutz allis 1816v sigma. I belive it to be bad. I can't find any numbers on it at all. I can't see the top yet as the unit is in the tractor yet. It may be an eaton 850 I am told... does anyone know where the numbers etc might be??? or can anyone identify it by sight ??? thanks much

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quantico
I purchased the 1998 deutz with a "bad transmission" he had the thing pressure tested and it failed those tests. He also removed the drive belt so I can't test the hydro until I replace that. The tractor pushes easily with the hydro release in the " non- engaged mode" only in reverse... forward is still very difficult to push the tractor. The brake pedal assembly appears in tact... but there is no return of the pedal... and the part on the hydro that the brake pedal operates appears to just flop forward and back. I was surprised that the brake pedal was linked to the hydro ?? Here are a few pictures of the hydro. [IMG]http://photobucket.com/albums/y43/fbigovusa/lowhydro.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://photobucket.com/albums/y43/fbigovusa/modserplate.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://photobucket.com/albums/y43/fbigovusa/hydrofrt.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://photobucket.com/albums/y43/fbigovusa/bottomh.jpg[/IMG]

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quantico
Gregc , I don't seem to be able to figure out where the numbers would be... I have pictures of the bottom looking straight up... and the shape does not seem to corespond with the eaton drawing.. I have cleaned the bottom in several areas.. all I can find is a patent number.. Bruker , supposedly the tractor stopped moving last year while snowblowing heavy snow. With the hydro release in the release position the tractor pushes easily backward , but is still hard to move forward.. I have read posts about one of the two valve releases failing... but seem to have only one release valve on this tractor. Is there any clue that the brake pedal just flops ??? no return and no pressure ??? How hard is it to rebuild the hydro ?? something I can do at home ??? or a pro job ?? I assume you remove the entire rear set of hubs that the rims bolt to to remove the hydro . Not sure what you hang the tractor on while the entire back end comes out ?? Thanks much guys ... I am still new to the tractor game..

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Bruker
Item 12 in the exploded view was extremely worn in about a 1" circular area. I used a mig welder to build the area back up and then smoothed it with a Dremel and emory paper to where you could hardly tell it was welded. I reassmbled every thing and it's been working great ever since. The only problem I was having is that it woudn't go forward, reverse was fine.http://hydraulics.eaton.com/products/pdfs/06-426.pdf
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UCD
Was this tractor the one that was just on Ebay? If it was Al Eden made a reply in the ebay forum which has since been deleted about this transmisson as to being very difficult and expensive for a do it your selfer to repair and hard to find good used transmissions. It was better suited to be parted out. You made the comment about this being a 1998 deutz. This tractor with MFG# 1691769 was made 1989 - 1991 the numbers on this tractor don't match Model on side of tractor says 1815h one decal in side of hood says 1816H 0ther decal says 1816V According to my books there was no 1815H

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goatfarmer
A tractor with no engine makes this easy!:D

Scott,this is the hydro we've been corresponding about.The numbers are on the white tag,with the bar codes on it.It doesn't look to be the same as yours.I can't say whether it can be made to fit.

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quantico
This was just on ebay ... thanks for the mismatched number catch... I actually missed that fact. The decal says 1816V matches the 1691769 and that is what the book also says that came with the tractor. I like the tractor and would like to repair it or get a used transmission... I should have posted with questions before buying the thing...but I assumed that being a simplicity at heart that all things would be easy to find and fix. I guess that we all know what happens when you assume something ??? The engine sounds great and runs flawlessly... the rest of the tractor looks good as well. The deck is in nice shape.. I assumed that the same transaxle was found in the simplicity lineup... is this a deutz allis part only ??? [ eaton 850 ] . I guess I can look around a bit for a used transmission or save up for a rebuild ??? or part it out. The briggs vanguard 16 hp twin should have a decent value in great condition. Maybe I should look for a simplicity that needs a vertical shaft engine ??

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quantico
" You made the comment about this being a 1998 deutz. This tractor with MFG# 1691769 was made 1989 - 1991 " I am typing before my brain is up to full operating temp... the tractor is a 1988 model , and that is what was claimed about it.. The 1815H on the tag is odd... a factory misprint ?? The book shows a 1814 /1816/1816V/1817 available... I assume the v stood for V-twin and the H was for hydro ... Maybe a call to simplicity would yield some info on Monday.. goatfarmer thanks for the pic... I don't think that we have the same transaxle / hydro at all... I may try to see if the dreaded eaton 850 was in any other tractors that might be parted out somewhere, or if there is another that would interchange size wise. The 850 is no longer available as a new part anywhere.. It may be a waste of time and money, but I might buy a new belt and change out the fluid and play with the hydro release and see if the thing is really toast...

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UCD
Talk to Al Eden He will give you the straight story on this transmission. As I stated above he made a reply to a post in the ebay forum on this tractor. Ebay post get deleted at end of auction. 1800 serirs Deutz Allis = 6500, 16GTH, 17GTH, series Simplicity

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Al
HI, I thought I posted the info on the 850 on this site. If I was on the e-bay site I didn't know it. A lot of things I don't know and the more you know, the more you become aware of whats out there to be learned. Any way, I hope someone can recover that. I don't have time to write it all again right now. This is an Eaton 850. IF YOU TAKE IT APART DO NOT LET THE BALLS IN THE PUMP OR EITHER OF THE 2 MOTORS GET OUT OF THE HOLES THEY ARE IN AND GET IN A DIFFERENT HOLE. IF YOU HAVE A NEW UNIT AND THE BALLS GET OUT AND INTERCHANGED THE NEW PUMP OR MOTOR IS SCRAP. THEY ARE SELECTIVELY FIT AT THE FACTORY TO TOLLERANCES IN 10THS OF THOUSANDS, OR 1 / 10,000 OF AN INCH. INTERCHANGE THEM AND THE PUMP EVEN IF NEW IS SCRAP. I will address this issue later, but if anyone could recover the post If would be wonderful for me. Al Eden

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clyde
Not the post Maynard mentioned, but it looks like Al has responded about the Eaton a few times: [url]http://www.simpletractors.com/club2/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=46384&SearchTerms=Eaton[/url] [url]http://www.simpletractors.com/club2/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=26365&SearchTerms=Eaton[/url] [url]http://www.simpletractors.com/club2/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=25181&SearchTerms=Eaton[/url]

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UCD
This is the link to the Ebay auction for this tractor [url]http://cgi.ebay.com/Simplicity-Deutz-Allis-16-V-Sigma-riding-mower_W0QQitemZ7728671870QQcategoryZ66761QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem[/url] This is the link to the post on this tractor and Al's reply [url]http://www.simpletractors.com/club2/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=56344&SearchTerms=eaton,[/url] This was Al's reply Al Advanced Contributor USA 1377 Posts Posted - 12/01/2005 : 23:26:44 HI, This tractor has an Eaton 850 transaxle. No complete units are available, and they all must be fixed with piece parts. Depends what is wrong. They have 1 pump and a separate motor on each axle. If the pump is bad, usually the cam ring is bad. Can also be true of the motors. These units use a pump and motors that have 5 balls in them instead of regular pistons. The only seal is the circumference of the balls in the holes. The balls are matched to the holes at the factory to clearances in 10ths of thousands of an inch. If you disassemble one and let the balls fall out of the holes and they get mixed up, you have to buy a new pump. Even if you buy a new pump, IT IS CRITICAL THAT YOU DO NOT LET THE BALLS GET MIXED OR IT ITS JUNK. We use a rubber band about an inch wide and 4 in in dia to slip over the balls before we remove the assy. Then if we decide to remove the balls we use an egg carton and mark the pump housing. We were told in service school about mixing the balls. The same for each motor. Some times the cam ring cracks. It is the race that moves back and forth that the balls run against and it changes the output flow from the pump for fwd and rev. They are $250 to $300. The pump assy that mates with it is in the $225 to $275 range. Also there planetary gears in each side to gear the motor down to the axle. If these are torn up and get in the case, the metal shavings could destroy the pump and both motors. One would really need to know how the transmission failed and what the symptoms are. They are not cheap transmissions to fix and worst case one could get to maybe $2000.00 in it. The other problem is there are very few used ones around. Because they cost more new than many of the other transmission brands, they were rarely used. The early LTH have this transmission also for about a year or so. I have one in an LTH that is weak after warm and I would hope I can fix it with a pump. If it were me I wouldn't get into this tractor deeper than I could part it out. Then if the transmission fix is cheap you win. If not, pull the engine and sell it and at least you won't lose. I would think there might better project tractors. If this were a 700. 900 AC or 7100, 7000, Simp. I have used rear ends and hydros I would sell that would be less than a pump and cam ring in this unit, and there are so many more of these trannys out there. My thoughts on this, they are free, so value accordingly, Good luck, Al Eden

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cwm1276
I asked about that tractor as a first project, it was in the same town as me. I reconize the dealer label on the side they went out of business about 20 years ago. My dad got all his AC stuff there. Al warned me against it, too much for my first project.

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e_rancher
I picked up a Deutz Allis 1814 this last summer. It is the first Simplicity product I've owned and, judging from this string, one with a possible fatal flaw. I don't plan to evaluate this tractor until after I finish the JD 112 and JD 212 but I have monitored this site since a co-worker offered the 1814 to me last winter and have found reams of valuable information. I have noticed Deutz Allis 1814 does not get a lot of ink (this is the only string I found with a 1814 "Search") and I didn't find a whole lot on the sister models UCD mentions above. How much does the troubles with the Eaton 850 transaxle affect the decision to preserve these tractors? Are these tractors more of a parts source for other models? ...and for which non-Eaton 850 models? AL, Great information! quantico, good luck and keep me informed on how things go. Who knows, I may have some parts for you. (Seriously) Thank you

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quantico
I put a belt on the hydro pump just to be sure it is bad... the belt spins well and has no wierd or bad sounds. The tractor goes neither forward or backward.. I think I will try to remove the hydro and have it cheacked by someone that knows a bit more than I do about failures of this unit. Anyone care to speculate what the cost would be to take it apart and give me the estimate for repair if I remove the unit from the tractor ??? I have a service manual for the hydro that describes how to get it out of the tractor... it looks like a lot of work, but I am sure I can do it given a bit of time.

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