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4xbill

AC 720 - Loose Starter Update

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4xbill
I got the motor out and the starter was just loose. That's good. I also noticed that the engine is a replacement. Can anyone identify this engine? The block and plate have the number 368987 stamped on them. After I got the engine on my bench I noticed a couple things disturbing. There is no charging system and no oil filter(????). Below are some pictures of the engine and one of the hood in my garage because I know you guys love pictures. Any insight on what engine this is, would be much appreciated.

[img]/club2/attach/4xbill/ENG1.JPG[/img] [img]/club2/attach/4xbill/ENG2.JPG[/img] [img]/club2/attach/4xbill/ENG3.JPG[/img]

Thanks for Any Info :D

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Guest
I'm sure you'll get a bunch more responses from members more knowledgeable than me but I think the lack of an oil filter would indicate an engine less than 18 hp. The color of it looks like something from a Cub Cadet or Sears. Lastly, the component parts of the charging system are behind the flywheel. It should be interesting to hear from others.

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JP
Hey Bill, Well..... Looks like a couple of Onans. It's a gen/welder setup on the points, looks to be a CCKA on the downdraft intake system (Mar-Scheb carb & skinny manifold). The flywheel looks to be a CCKB SYNCRO. You'll need to take it off to tell for sure. If the magnets are 12 separate in a 'cage' then SYNCRO, if they're 6 with no cage. I think it's the PHELEN system (sorta rare). Can you see the stator behind the flywheel? This may be the reason you had (or the PO) the problem with your starter. If the PO didn't use the right oilpan/flywheel/starter combination it could cause your situation. It 'looks' like the right stuff though.... The PO looked like they did a pretty good job on the exhaust, most just hack on the hoods to get the mufflers on (YUK!!). I don't see ANY tin for around the motor, do you have it? If you don't, GET IT! They run better w/it. You'll want to consider doing the oil filter thing. It's a drill through to the main brg (with it removed of course). Then a drill & tap two holes for the filter manifold. As they say, " Some Assembly Required". LOL JP

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Guest
quote:
Originally posted by JP
You'll want to consider doing the oil filter thing. It's a drill through to the main brg (with it removed of course). Then a drill & tap two holes for the filter manifold.
I have the same situation with my Sears 16 hp Onan. Is it possible to do the same oil filter conversion on this too? Also, was I correct in stating that Onan didn't begin putting on oil filters until they produced 18 hp engines?

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D-17_Dave
The oil filters were in place on most ag related applications and ALL the CCKA's that were 16.5 HP used in the 4040's and 616's. As for theengine, I agree with JP. Looks to be some sort of gen/ welder engine put in place of your old CCKB. W/ the downdraft carb. your only gonna get around the 16.5 HP. If the stator is missing also, bythe time you source a manifold, carb, air cleaner and heat shields. Plus all the charging circut, you could have more into it than a complete used engine. You can bench test the starter while you have it out for proper flywheel engagement, but if it were me, I'd stick it back in just like it is and run it and just charge the batt. when needed and look for a complete 20 HP engine to put back in it. It's not my first choice to do but sisnce your loking for so many rarer parts this 720 may be a candidate for a honda or other engine convertion. In this case it might be money well spent. My 2 cents worth anyway.

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Guest
quote:
Originally posted by JP
Beeze.... Not exactly.... They were on the 616 & 4040 (CCKA 2026G) 16.5HP. Not sure? Is it a CCK block? JP
No, it's a BF. Is there a source that describes all of these Onan blocks and when they were produced? So far, I've run across BF, CCKA, CCKB, B48. It would be interesting to know where they all fit into Onan history.

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dhardin
Looks some what like the generator motor out of my motor home. It chagers a trickle 4 amps to the battery from the windings of the generator, not the motor. The flywheel/cooling fan are on the other side (of your stater gear). Also it uses the genrator for a starter, so it dose not have a stater grear/fly wheel. Some one worked real hard to modify your motor it appears to me. Also if it is a generator motor it might be only 8 to 12 hp, i Think my motor is a BF old style. Find you a old s/g and a pulley on the outout shaft (if theres room) and you will be set. If Its the BF it is not designed for what your using it for but it will run at a light load for ever and not use much gas.

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JP
Hmmm.... Dan brings up a good point! If the PO wasn't looking, they probably left all 10 (That's TEN) balls in the governor. Our application takes 5 (Five). How did it run?? Also, sounds like you need to get the flywheel off! JP

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quote:
Originally posted by JP
How would you tell it is a BF......... ?
Back from Tennis ... It says so on the engine ID tag. I suppose the cowl could've been changed but others with the same tractor have stated they have a BF also.

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4xbill
Alright I'm more confused than before. I have all the heat shields. I'm tightening up the starter, gonna put it back together, put it in and try and get it running. I will bench test the starter before I put it it back in. The honda is sounding better and better(may have to sell some of the wife's jewelery).

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comet66
quote:
Originally posted by 4xbill
The honda is sounding better and better(may have to sell some of the wife's jewelery).
Give her a pushmower, a snowshovel, and Al's phone number. Let it be her idea.;):D:D

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powerking_one
Bill, To the best of my knowledge, a CCK* type engine without an oil filter was one of the earliest generation CCK engines, rated at 12.5 HP @ 1800 RPM's. They were used primarily on RE-FER (tractor trailer refridgeration units) back in the early 1960's. The compresssion ratio was pretty low as well (~~7:1) which reflects the low extremely conservative HP rating. The CCK-A,B were higher compression and used the oil filter setup. Gravely used the orginal CCK on their "white elephant" front mount 72" mower/tractors back in 1961 with one of these engines. The "Clean-Cut" as marketing coined it, never really made it into production. Also, the 12.5HP CCK had Magneto ignition; not battery. Tom(PK) Tom (PK)

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