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Roy

Hydraulic Float

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Roy
Tripping through accessories for AC tractors on the site I noticed that the hydraulic lift option included "float" for both the up and down directions. ^^ Thought it was interesting since the new tractors do not have float in either direction.

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MikeES
The new tractors use cables and spring rods instead of a solid connection for the "float". The old system is more flexible with the ability to put "real" down pressure on the attachments.

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D-17_Dave
Early vertions of tractors had the solid rear lift rods so float was a must on the hyd. lift. As for the late models, true they had cable lift and didn't need the float position, but it is simply a different spool in the same valve body. Probably didn't cost any different between the 2 types.

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HubbardRA
A valve from a PowerMax with float is a direct replacement for the factory valve. I have one on my 716H. You can't tell the difference between the two valves by looking at them.

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HubbardRA
Marty, your just like dragging your Bunny Boots in the snow. I prefer to keep my feet up out of the snow, sort of high and dry, ya know. I guess that after working construction all those years, you feel like you have to be cold and wet to prove that you are outside. I would be totally happy to walk out of the house into a heated, attached garage, and start a RBT with a cab and heater, then climb in it and clear my driveway, and re-park it in the garage, and never have to be in a temperature less than 65 degrees. To me that would be ideal. I guess up there in Tok, if you don't feel like a "Brass Monkey" then it is considered a heat wave. No wonder you like FDTs. Brain Freeze?:D:D:D Roy, may I ask why someone would actually need two float positions on a control valve. Float is float. It is going to drop the attachment to the ground regardless of which float you put it in. Guess we are arguing about,"one detent-or two". I have float on mine and you don't. So there!![:0]...8D8D Wait a minute! Am I the only person in this club who has an RBT with a hydrolift that has float? ??

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Roy
Right on Marty. ^ Rod, I like the idea of having solid lift rods and being able to control the depth of an attachment whether it is on the front, middle, or rear of the tractor. I can force the tiller on my B-1 to dig deeper by pushing on the lift handle. Cannot do that with the cable lift on the Sovereign. Same thing for a front dozer blade although spring loaded does work. Theoretically "float" just makes sense and seems more versatile than the cable lifts and springs. :D:D

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HubbardRA
Roy, Buy a valve for a PowerMax and replace your existing one with it. Then you will have float. I first used a valve from a Sunstar (no float) on mine. Then Marty told me that the other valve I bought from ebay (from a 4040) had float. Unbolted one, put on the other (no external differences at all) and I had float. This means that the PowerMax control valve can be used to replace any of the control valves on the 900s, 7100s, or Sunstars, to add the float feature. By the way, you can also make a solid rod for the rear of an RBT. I had one on my 716H for a while. It just takes a little design and bending, to finagle it around all of the stuff that is in the way on the hydro tranny. You may have to make some type of adapter to hook it to the rockshaft. I hooked mine to the lever on the rockshaft for the hydro-cylinder and used it with the manual lift. I think you could also hook one up to the cable lift mounts, with a little engineering. If I made one, I know you can too.

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BLT
When you rototil in a rocky area like my sons, you'll appreciate the float. The 3112H tiller has hooked rocks and then tried to force tiller up and the give point is the lift rod. I have hammered it straight too many times, made two extra rods and resigned myself to drop tiller all the way and 'float' the lift so I don't bend lift rod and damage ram. I wanted to install a cable to replace the rod, but there isn't a straight line shot front to rear.

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Roy
Marvelous feature of the B-1 is that it has built-in float. The lift arm sector has holes instead of notches. I use a clevis pin to limit the down travel for the tiller and lift arm floats until it is raised enough to latch in the up position. My 7013S lift arm sector has notches the lift arm latches into. To obtain float with it I would have to modify the spring latch to stay in. Don't understand why they changed from holes to notches on the sector. Works much better with holes. Just another FDT feature that I like. :) Rod, when I talked with D-17 Dave about the PowerMax hydraulic valve it was my understanding that it only had float in the up position. Maybe I misunderstood him. Question: Is the float position and extra position for the up or down position? e.g. Can the hydro valve be left in up, or down, or does it automatically go into the float position after raising or lowering the lift? BLT, I see you have come appreciated float with your tiller. Sam, the FDT's (b-1, 700, & 725 in particular) have many good features that were lost in the transition to RBT's. :D Thanks,

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HubbardRA
Roy, Float is float, as I said before. If you put it in float, the weight of the attachment is going to allow the attachment to drop to the ground. You push the hydrolift lever forward to lower the attachment. Push it farther and it floats. I guess this is in the down position, since both front and rear go up together on my current setup (till I change it). It really doesn't matter because you can lift the attachments all the way up, then push the lever in the other direction and they will go into float also. If you don't push the lever into the detented float position, the hydraulics will hold the attachment wherever you stop the motion. Let me say it again, to put the lever into float, you push the lever hard forward past the maximum for downward force on the front attachment. There just is not another similar position when pulling rearward. Don't get me wrong about float, it still takes some force to move the lift when in float. My rear ball hitch will not go down when put in float. It is not heavy enough. It takes enough force to push the hydraulic fluid from the piston thru the lines to the other side of the piston. I have to put my foot on the hitch and push it down, and then it moves fairly slow. It doesn't drop suddenly. There may be an adjustment to change this, since this one was set for the heavy attachments on a PowerMax. I just haven't found any info on this yet.

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HubbardRA
Bob, Roy and I are talking about the hydrolift that is powered from the charge pump on a Sunstrand hydro. I installed a control valve from a PowerMax on mine. This gives me a float position which Roy doesn't have on his factory unit.

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MPH
Brss Monkey with brain freeze, watched to many flintstones when i grew up, oh, proud to say without a tv,:) man, go work all day putting down underlayment for a tile job I'm doing and i get all beat up.:(:D Thanks Roy and Mike for the defense of my sanity.^:)

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D-17_Dave
All this great information and we still managed to work in a hit on Marty[:0], an argument on the ongoing FDT's verses RBT's:p, and some basic hydraulic fundamentals8D. Gotta love that 10 bucks:D.

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Kent
Roy, Maybe another description will help. My Power Trac has a single joystick control for both lift and curl. To set the float at any position (lift or curl) you momentarily push the control up past the normal "UP" position until it clicks a built-in detent in the valve itself, then you let it return to center (it's self-centering). If you push it quick while lowering an attachment for example, you can go on past UP to the FLOAT position without the implement starting to go back up.... It will stay in float only as long as you don't make any other movement of the control -- as soon as you move the control in any direction, it releases the FLOAT setting, and you're back to manually controlling it. However, there's no visible "lock or detent" to let you see that it's in float (like the old foot-draggers) nor is there a float setting at the end of UP and DOWN travel on the control. I'd imagine the PowrMax control works similarly...

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Al
HI, Several years ago we sold a new Sun Star loader and we found the mfr of the valve, and I believe it was the same as the one for the valve body on the tractor. I don't remember the details, but we ordeered the spool for the valve through a hydraulics supplier. The valve bodies were the same, but the spools are different. Al Eden

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HubbardRA
Al, I'd say right as usual. I have both the SunStar valve and the PowerMax valve. Side-by-side they look identical. When installed, the PowerMax valve has float but the SunStar valve does not. Probably only a difference in the spools as you said.

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