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Chris727

Part number needed for AC716 exhaust elbow

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Chris727
Hi. I broke the exhaust elbow on my MF16. It is NLA from Massey. It is nearly the same as the one on my AC710 with the exception of the 10hp having smaller threads on the block and the 16hp having larger ones. So naturally you would think a 716 would use the one I need. When I looked one up for a 716 in my AC700 series manual, the # is wrong because it lists the same one for the 710 through 716 which cannot be correct due to the 16hp engine having larger diameter threads. Am I correct in understanding that Simplicity only used briggs in their 16hp tractors and that the 16hp kohler was limited to use in the AC's? If so I won't find any other manual with the right #. Thank you. Chris

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HubbardRA
Chris, I couldn't find that part in the AC 716 manual. I know what you are looking for because there was one on an engine I traded off. I made one for the 14Hp engine that I have on the 61 Wards. I used a 45 degree street elbow, then screwed in a short section of straight pipe. The pipe was slightly larger than the muffler tubing, so I turned it down in a lathe to fit the muffler pipe. Hope this helps. Strange that the manual doesn't show that adapter. Try sending a PM to Maxtorman. He had several Kohlers and may have one of these adapters that he would sell. Maynard, the Kohler adapter is a unique fitting that would not be found at a plumbing supply. It is a cast 45 degree adapter with a straight section for the exhaust tube to be clamped onto.

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Chris727
Thanks for the suggestions. How would I look this up as a kohler part? Would the engine's serial # identify the exaust elbow used? I looked through the print vendor section of the Simplicity site hoping to find an AC 900 series manual for the 1690575 which used a kohler but the only books I found for that # only covered the 7100 series which had the 7116H w/briggs. Rod, your idea of making one is the best so far. I may have to give that a try if I can't locate one. Thank You. Chris

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UCD
The manuals are available on the tech pub vendors site and the teck pub site MFG# 1691383 This is from the 900 series 916H & 917H parts manual TP#1170 #34 154378 Locknut #35 1666132 Elbow assy. exhust #36 172061 clamp muffler #37 1666059 Muffler exhust

This is from the 710, 712S, 712H, 716H parts manual. [img]]/club2/attach/UCD/716AirIntakeExhustParts.jpg[/img]

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Karl_Brandt
I also have a Allis Chalmers 716H tractor,this exhaust elbow is broken on my tractor too. I found the part number on the Kohler website. Part # 4505404S exhaust elbow.This sells for $31.44 US at Jacks small engines website.www.jackssmallengines.com Karl

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gregc
Karl, Ambler and Maynard are all correct. They are just talking about two different elbows. Kohler Part # 4505404S exhaust elbow is the elbow that is screwed into the exhaust port in the cylinder of the K341 in the 716 Allis. It is 1 1/4" NPT reduced down to 1" pipe. Simplicity part # 1651474 is the elbow that adapts from the Kohler elbow to the muffler. It is part # 27 in the diagram below. Part # 2 in the diagram is used only on Briggs engines. Part #2 in the second diagram that Maynard posted has the correct part # for the adaptor elbow for the Kohlers, but is depicted wrong.

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HubbardRA
Maynard, I appologize for taking exception to your post. As you can see from the picture that Greg posted, the drawing for the parts is totally wrong. The drawing shows a straight threaded piece, not the 45 degree adapter as shown in Greg's picture. Since I have one of the elbows and knew what it looked like, I assumed the pictured straight part was not the right one. This is not the first time I have found parts that were not drawn properly in the Simplicity parts manuals. By the way, I did look the parts up in the Simplicity manuals, both online and in the two manuals that I have in hardcopy form. All of them show the wrong picture. No offense meant to you, but I was hesitant to specify a part number that was attached to a picture that showed the wrong part.

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UCD
There are a lot of parts that aren't drawn correctly and a lot of other mistakes in the simplicity manuals. They also show generic blocks and in the parts list you have to look for Briggs only or Kohler only or 12hp or 16hp only in the list. In one of the manuals the 12hp is Kohler and the 16 is Briggs. Most of the Newer model Simplicity manuals will also state the corresponding Allis model on the cover But The Allis manual will not state the corresponding Simplicity model but use Simplicity drawings and part#s for Briggs engines when they only came with a Kohler . It can get very confusing. You can have 3 different manuals on the same tractor and each one will give you different info. One of the Allis manuals I have for a model that only came with a Kohler engine lists Simplicity part#s for a Briggs engine. Mr remark about going to the plumbing store to get pipe fittings was to get the fittings tomake one up as it has pipe threads. A 45° 1 1/4" to 1" street elbow reducer and a 1" close nipple would solve the problem. A lot cheaper than $30 for the original fitting. After all isn't Kohler known for its plumbing fixtures

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HubbardRA
Maynard, The reason I took exception to the plumbing idea is that I did just that to put the exhaust on the 14Hp Kohler that is currently in my 61 Wards. I had to turn the nipple down in a lathe to get the outer diameter of the pipe small enough to fit into the exhaust tubing that attaches to the muffler. So using plumbing fittings either requires using a lathe to turn the pipe OD, or welding the two pieces together. The second problem is that the Kohler part is not a smoothly shaped elbow like a plumbing elbow. It has a much sharper bend, sort of an "S" shape rather than just a smooth radius. The factory shape puts the attachment point for the exhaust tubing farther away from the side of the hood, than a plumbing elbow would. Just guessing, I would say at least 1/2 inch difference. It can be done, but will also require some additional modifications. I think I have both setups. I'm pretty sure that there is a factory elbow on the 12 Hp Kohler that I got from Clyde a while back, since it has the factory muffler. I will see if I can get some pictures over the weekend that make sense. Since my homemade elbow has been turned 180 degrees to hook up to a stack muffler, I'm not not sure how to make the direct comparison without taking the exhaust apart, which I am not willing to do. I'll see if I can find another elbow that I can lay over the factory Kohler elbow to show the horizontal offset that would be produced. I hope that what I have just said is a little clearer than mud. Again, I am not questioning your abilities to look up the parts, or come up with suitable solutions. This is just a case where "been-there, done-that" has given me additional information about the problems involved when using plumbing hardware to make this exhaust connection.

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HubbardRA
Thanks, Clyde. That picture shows the bend in the factory elbow and how it puts the pipe nearly straight in line with the exhaust port. A plumbing elbow will pull the entire muffler system toward you as you look at the picture because of the different radius of a pipe elbow. Is this understandable?

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Chris727
I looked at my engine and the exhaust port is 1 1/2 inches. GregC said the Kohler part number provided was for 1 1/4." I'll see if I can get a manaul off the kohler site. Thank you for all the research.

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