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MrSteele

Landlord PTO belt snaps on engage

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MrSteele
I decided that today, in all its wonderful nastiness, with snow in the sunny south, would be a good day to start the engine rebuild on my new old tractor. Before I took it apart, however, I wanted to grind a few more leaves. That was what I thought, anyway. Has anyone ever had a situation where the PTO belt simply snaps when the clutch is engaged? This was the second belt to do this for me, and those little toys are not cheap! The belt from the PTO to the top pulley on the deck is the one in question here. The deck is in decent shape, though a couple of the bearings will get replaced during this overhaul. All blades turn freely as can be expected, and the pulleys are in decent shape. I used the tractor last week with no troubles, at all, save a quart of oil or more per gallon of gas! The belt simply snaps in two when the clutch is engaged, as if the blades are unable to move. Any help will be appreciated. The Simplicity dealer said to engage more slowly, so I have gotten into this habit. But, that didn't seem to matter today.

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MrSteele
Is there any way that anyone has learned to start the blades slowly, sort of like a cushion effect, or going into gear slowly? I have tried 'bumping' the lever, but this does not seem to engage at all. What I do now, is to simply push the lever slowly, and that apparently is not the answer, either.

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MDB
I have had that happen to me on a number of occasions. What I found out was that in each instance the tractor had been setting for a while (a month or more) and the belts had actually rusted to the pulleys. What I do now is before I start the engine I turn the PTO and atactments by hand to make sure they are free... Hope this helps.

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MrSteele
The tractor is a 65 Landlord, with a belt clutch. This happened the first time when it had been sitting for a couple of weeks, the next time, it had been used the day before, and the last time, was sitting for about a week. I'll try turning the blades manually and see if that helps. Thanks!

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johnmonkey
has your mower deck belt been replaced? I would check the deck belt. Remove the belt and check all of the spindles individually (see if they freespin). Also check the drive pulley on the deck, make sure the pulley is tight. Inspect all pulleys on the deck. There is a grease fitting on the pto shaft, with the pto belt off, does the PTO shaft spin real smooth? does the shaft move side to side easily? just a few thoughts. good luck. JH

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Simplicity314
I doubt it would be a seized pully...thing would just rub like a stuck bearing on a water pump. My guess would be the sitting factor. Those belts get dry they keep their shape, become hard and crack or stick like stated above. Might be a flat pulley seperating and exposing a sharp edge. Does it jump off the pulley and hang up and snap, did you notice, or does it break when seated properly on the pullies?

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MrSteele
Definatly not a siezed pulley. The deck works fine, noisy because of the two bearings that I will replace while it is down, IF I can get the mandrel apart, as I have already tried once, to no avail. I thought about the misaligned, or bent pulleys after the second belt, that was not the problem. The shaft on the PTO moves freely, has been greased, and the bearings on the shaft have no play in the wrong directions. I'll likely start turning the deck by hand before engaging the clutch, because I can find no other real solution to the problem. I had hoped it would be something easy like a misaligned pulley, or a bearing about gone, but, that is not the case. Two bearings need to be replaced, but, so far, that is only noise, not destruction of the bearing. Thanks!

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debshirl
myself and my uncle both have problems with belts on different mowers .after talking to a belt rep. belts should be engaged at rated engine speed .tried this all season have not had any belt problems yet.

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dcw06
Never had this problem.But had a new Zero Turn delivered this morning and the last thing he told me before he left"Engage the deck at Full Throttle,or no less than 3/4 throttle" to save the belt.I have in the past done the full throttle engage but more often not.

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KenK
I agree with the full throttle engagement.I think the belt is designed to slip a little at full throttle when engaged.If engaged at slow rpm's the belt does'nt slip,it just grabs right away and snaps.This is my opinion,take it for what it's worth.

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iweld
I've had a similar problem on the top belt on my 67 landlord. Discovered that when I finished mowing and shut off the machine the hot belt takes a "set" in that configuration. When I would engage the deck no matter what the throttle, the belt would grab and snap. My wife went to using her foot on the lever because the belt would cause a tremendous kick on the lever mechanism. (and usually bend the rod). My fix? When out to the lawn and ready to mow, I shut off the engine and then restart with the deck engaged. (You can do this on the old stuff) After the belts are hot, you can turn them on and off as much as you want and at whatever rpm. But after their cold and "set" watch out.

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MrSteele
THAT's it! I have tried easing the belt into gear, usually with a cold engine at about half throttle. The dang thing just 'jumps', makes a nasty racket, that I now know all too well. And your wife is right to use her foot, because the lever jumps back hard. I'll try the engage the belts and start the engine, and I know the engine will start with the blades engaged, as I have done that often, accidentally. Thanks

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MrSteele
I have wondered about the belt length, but, I have been buying the belts from a Simplicity dealer. Putting the belt on is a chore in itself, as I have to use a long bar or 2x to pry the pulley on the clutch far enough to even be able to consider slipping the belt over the pulley. I think the spec is for a 45" belt, but will have to look again.

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babablacksheep
Hi. I think your last post is a dead giveaway to the problem. If the belt is so tight that you can't get it over the pulley by rotating the pulley by hand with the clutch disengaged, it is way too tight. Measure your old belt and move up one inch in length or until you can slip it over by hand with the clutch disengaged. Gates green belts will work just fine. If your old belt is as tight as you say, I doubt if you can actually disengage the mower all the way.

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MrSteele
On this tractor, and someone who has one, please correct me if I'm wrong, it seems that a tight belt is a necessity to make the clutch operate properly. When I tried using a longer belt(the tractor had no belt when I got it), the clutch for the deck did not work at all. I could possibly get by with an additional inch or so, but, much more, and the blade clutch doesn't work at all, no matter how it is adjusted.

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richp
Glad to see that I am not alone in getting kickback from the old pto style. I thought that lever would break my arm. I too resorted to the foot engage style. Now with cone clutch, not an issue.

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msiebern
According to my literature, the belt is 44.1" long type HA. If it is too tight, someone may have put a larger pulley on the center arbor. I can measure mine when I get over to the farm if that would help.

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Alpha8D
Just reread this thread after a few days additions. WOW, learn something every day! I never engage a belt with throttle any where near wide open but I will from now on. That's really counter-intuitive but I have learned to trust the advice I get here. Thanks,

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babablacksheep
Here is the link to a V belt posting that UCD put up in commonly asked questions section in 2003. It may answer a lot of your questions. http://www.simpletractors.com/club2/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=22257

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HubbardRA
I would check the diameter of the tensioner idler, and the pulleys, then compare with others who have this same tractor. I know I was having trouble when using standard commercial belts. I changed the idler size on the tensioner and have been mowing with the same belt for the past three years. Before that I went thru three in one season. If belts don't track properly they will break or get eaten. Never know what the previous owner did to it. I also had a problem with the mower on the 61 Wards I have. The bearings were going bad in the deck. Shafts wouldn't turn when I let it set a while. I would reach up under the mower and move each blade back and forth till it loosened up and turned freely. I could then engage the belt and mow the lawn. If I didn't do this, the belt would slip. Mine didn't have enough friction to break the belt, but it would slip and squeel but would not turn the mower.

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MrSteele
Well, as I seem to be the only person in my area having such a tractor, a comparison might be difficult. I have already checked all the obvious possibilities, such as misalignment: not possible for a twisted belt Bent or dented sheaves: Front sheave is a cast pulley on the blane mandrel, good shape, Cast 2 gang pulley on the PTO, also in good shape. Wrong size: ?? Yet to be determined, but soon to know from dealer Deck blades won't turn: all 3 turn freely, with a little noise from a couple of the bearings. I think I might have found another Landlord tonight, the guy said I could have the whole tractor for what he paid for it, $60 bucks. All I want is the engine block, but if it is a Landlord, I might also have a parts tractor. And, perhaps something to compare mine to?

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