biggie_rat Posted May 17, 2006 Posted May 17, 2006 I bought a 46" (48"?)sickle bar today at Portland. It was in such good condition and had lots of spare guards, blades and rivets. This picture is what it was used on. I just wondered if anyone has done a conversion to run it off of a 700/7000 or 7000/7100 style PTO or if I need to buy a tractor with the older style PTO (under the main frame), which is not a problem. I would rather use the set-up on a tractor with running boards. Can anyone identify the tractor? (sorry about the quality of the picture. It is a picture of a picture). Would a newer 3100 to 3300 series mount to the sickle bar? There is no model # tag on the sickle set-up. The seller wasn't the original owner so he couldn't tell me. I would probably dedicate that tractor to the sickle bar mower only. Thanks, B.R.
D-17_Dave Posted May 17, 2006 Posted May 17, 2006 Tractor is a 3112H or a 3212H whitch is basicly the same tractor just a year of manufacture apart. I'm not sure of what it would take to put it on a RBT but I think it could be done with the proper belt alignment.
gregc Posted May 17, 2006 Posted May 17, 2006 It should work on the 3300 series. It has the old style center PTO and you'll have running boards too.
ambler Posted May 17, 2006 Posted May 17, 2006 I believe problem will be the running boards interfering with the lift cable.
gregc Posted May 17, 2006 Posted May 17, 2006 quote:Originally posted by ambler I believe problem will be the running boards interfering with the lift cable. It's not a problem. The pulley mounting assembly for the cable lift mounts to the tractor frame out in front of the running board.
SmilinSam Posted May 18, 2006 Posted May 18, 2006 All one has to do for the 3300 series is buy a weld a hub pulley the right size to run the mower off of and put it on thePTO shaft in place of the one that drives the mower deck.
HubbardRA Posted May 18, 2006 Posted May 18, 2006 I bought the belt clutch PTO assembly from MDB when he converted the one to a cone clutch. I have plans to put this older style PTO on my 716H for the exact same reason that Ron is asking about. I have an old style (210 handle-lift) sicklebar mower that I would like to use with the newer RBT. I will probably have to change it to cable lift. Ron, if you do it first, let me know what problems you run into.
DarrylF Posted May 18, 2006 Posted May 18, 2006 That's a really nice looking mower you bought and all of us understand how exciting it is to find an old attachment in really good condition. I have some experience with sickle bar mowers and use mine often to keep the weeds trimmed around my pond. You can only go so close to the edge with a rotary mower. With the sickle bar I can dip the end in the water and safely drive around the pond. The consensus seems to be to mount the old style sickle bars to non-cone clutch tractors. I agree. I'm sure at least one of our clever members has figured out a way to mount it using the cone clutch, and that's probably the guy you're hoping to hear from. As long as the tractor you are adapting to is a gear drive, all should work well. However, if you're trying to adapt the sickle bar to a hydro, you run the very real (and most likely) risk of overspeeding the sickle bar unless you can determine the right size pullies to use. Hydros operate best at relatively high engine rpm, sickle bars operate at relatively low engine rpm and tend to shake themselves apart if operated at higher speed. The sickle bar intended for the cone clutch hydros has a big gear reduction on top similar to the B-series high/low to reduce the speed to the mower. That is what you'll need to compensate for with pullies. Best of luck with your find! Darryl
MikeES Posted May 20, 2006 Posted May 20, 2006 I run a sickle bar on my HB212 with a hydro drive. I run the throttle at half speed as suggested and work the hydro accordingly to grass thickness, no different that rotary mowing. No problems in 25+ years. Note: my 3314V has the double V drive + the small dia. pulley on the swing arm exactly like the HB212. I have never tried the sickle mower on 3314V.
biggie_rat Posted May 30, 2006 Author Posted May 30, 2006 I finally got time to work on this. I decided to put it on an Allis 716 3 spd. w/high-low, (formerly Brent Baumer's, formerly Pud's). It took some tweeking since it was made for an older style mid PTO, but over two days, (including one while watching the Indy 500), I finally ended up with this. Of course, it rained and got the grass along the roadside wet about 2 hours before I finished up the installation today. I did hit the hay field a swath and it didn't miss a beat. It may not stay on this tractor but it's a start. [img]/club2/attach/bIGGIE_rAT/sick4.jpg[/img] [img]/club2/attach/bIGGIE_rAT/sick1.jpg[/img] [img]/club2/attach/bIGGIE_rAT/sick2.jpg[/img] [img]/club2/attach/bIGGIE_rAT/sick3.jpg[/img] B.R.
D-17_Dave Posted May 30, 2006 Posted May 30, 2006 Nice job. Didn't you have to open up the belt houseing n the mower a little to allow the belt access to the pullies? I thought the hitch w/ the pullies had to pivot in alignment to follow the angle of the belt as the mower bounced up and down. I'm going by memory here. I'd like to know what you did and how you modified it.
HubbardRA Posted May 31, 2006 Posted May 31, 2006 Ron, How did you slow things down enough to allow the sicklebar to run with the cone clutch setup? That was the only reason that I had not mounted my sicklebar on one of my RBTs. I was going to change to one of the older PTO setups. Looks like you didn't have to change the PTO. Can you please tell me how you slowed down the sicklebar with that setup? People keep saying that it needs a 3:1 reduction to work properly. I want to do the same thing. I knew the mounting was not a problem, but slowing it down was. Come on, fess up. My 716H is waiting. I also like your idea of using a lightweight cable, rather than a heavy chain, to hold the bar vertical. Good Job. I love seeing a plan come together.
dcw06 Posted May 31, 2006 Posted May 31, 2006 Nice work!Now I know who to talk to if I ever come across one of those.
dirtsaver Posted May 31, 2006 Posted May 31, 2006 Yahoo!!! That's what I call a sweet setup Ron! I have to admit, that sickle bar makes a RBT look a lot better. Maybe it's because the boards blend in with the sickle frame. Any way you look at it, you've got a winner. I think I'd just leave that rig as the dedicated SBT(sickle bar tractor).
biggie_rat Posted June 1, 2006 Author Posted June 1, 2006 I just spent a half hour answering 'how to's on this post and what I did, then hit the wrong button and it all disappeared before it was posted. I will try it again another day. B.R.
2burning Posted June 4, 2006 Posted June 4, 2006 Bringing this to the top to see if today is another day. Quite curious how this goes...
biggie_rat Posted June 6, 2006 Author Posted June 6, 2006 I don’t know if putting this mower on a mid-PTO is advisable after all. It does work, but needs to be ran at near idle to keep from tearing its’ self up (as many people have said). I did learn a lot of things about it though. After the first time I started it up at above idle speed and about 36” of the 46” bar shot out of the end and I welded it back only to have it to do it again, I looked for a way to change things. It’s not normal procedure to engage most anything at idle. I got a piece of 1/8” by 3/4” flat steel bar stock to weld under the break for as long a length as needed, welded it under the original cutter bar, drilled (and tapped, since the break was at the end of ball joint bracket) then re-riveted it. After that, took a hand grinder and ground the edges the new flat at a 45 degree angle the length of the new bar stock. There is a cavity under the bar track that would allow the extra thickness added by the bar stock, (maybe thicker) to run the full length if you were replacing all of the cutter blades, thus reinforcing the bar. The only way I can see, to slow cutter speed down is cutting a spare double PTO pulley down or replacing it with a smaller diameter pulley, bolted to the side. Of course, that would cause a problem if you were go back with a belly mower, but if that tractor could be dedicated to the sickle bar/mid-grader, front blade, tiller, etc. the inside pulley could stay the smaller diameter. The lower bottom tensioner pulley angle needed to be changed, but I cured that with the same adjustable angling device I use when I convert a 700/7000 series snow blower to a mid-PTO set-up, that way both pulleys are aimed directly to the mower pulleys. I didn’t do anything to the sickle bar pulleys or the entire assembly at all, for the installation. Sunday, I picked up a nice 3212h, with hydro lift, just like the one in my first picture. It is the first time I have ever bought a tractor to match an attachment, (usually the other way around). I will post pics as soon as I get around to installing the sickle bar on it, since I have a list of ‘to do’s a mile long. Maybe I will learn something on this 3212h/sickle bar combo to give me an idea on the 716/sickle bar combo. The 716/sickle bar combo works great as long as you can remember to keep the engine speed at idle or what is necessary and the bar reinforcement seems to be necessary if you have a tendency to not remember to idle it down before you engage it. B.R.
HubbardRA Posted June 6, 2006 Posted June 6, 2006 Thanks Ron, For a while there I thought you had stumbled onto a unique way of slowing down the mower, that I hadn't been able to figure out. What you have just said has convinced me to continue with my idea of installing one of the older PTO systems onto my 716H. I am going to try and accomplish this and still be able to use the cone clutch. I will use the old PTO system to produce the necessary gear reduction. I have a new tooth bar in mine and don't want to break it like you did. I have the PTO that came on my 61 Wards, so that I can re-configure the one on the 716 to have the same pulley ratios and produce the same mower speed. The sicklebar is the only attachment that I plan to run off of the center PTO on that tractor. It will be used with my front PTO driven snowblower, and I also hope to hook up a tiller, but that runs direct from the BGB pulley. The belly mower will be decicated to another tractor. I have three running, a fourth one on the way, and nearly enough parts to assemble number five, so I can affort to dedicate certain attachments to each of the tractors.
biggie_rat Posted June 11, 2006 Author Posted June 11, 2006 quote:Originally posted by HubbardRA For a while there I thought you had stumbled onto a unique way of slowing down the mower, that I hadn't been able to figure out. Rod, A new challenge ! Even though I have bought the correct tractor to fit the mower, I am working on the 716 right now, using the original set up, PTO and belt tensioner. Due to unknown belt sizes (at this time), and my belt place closed on Sunday it may not be finished today, but well on the way. I have tons of belts, but never have the right one I need at the time I need it. B.R.
biggie_rat Posted June 15, 2006 Author Posted June 15, 2006 After Rod's mention of slowing the sickle speed down when using the older style sickle bar on the Allis 716, I came upon an idea and with a little planning and trial & error, all of a sudden it hit me on how I could fix the problem. As it came about, over the weekend, I have slowed it down quite a bit, was able to use the original belt for the sickle mower, used the original belt tensioner and it works like a charm. I mowed the roadside, fence rows (which hadn't been touched yet this year) an into the hayfield of 4' or more grass and alfalfa, (which was a load), with great results. I'll go over it again in about a week and get it more even. Probably the hay will be done by then. [img]/club2/attach/bIGGIE_rAT/sickle mower.jpg[/img] [img]/club2/attach/bIGGIE_rAT/sickle mowing.jpg[/img] Now I don't think I am going to need this tractor, afterall. [img]/club2/attach/bIGGIE_rAT/3212.jpg[/img] B.R.
2burning Posted June 27, 2006 Posted June 27, 2006 So BR what method did you use to slow the sickle down? The older style PTO tensioner?
biggie_rat Posted June 27, 2006 Author Posted June 27, 2006 No, I didn't use an older style tensioner. It was my own design, using the original pivot arm tensioner, with no cutting or welding, using the original belt from the sickle bar and can easily be converted back to original Simplicity design to use the original pivot arm features. Works slick as a whistle. It's a little different now with the 'big meats' Firestones that I got at the Portland Swap Meet. [img]/club2/attach/bIGGIE_rAT/big meats.jpg[/img] B.R.
Brent_Baumer Posted June 27, 2006 Posted June 27, 2006 Gonna have to come over and check it out. I'd like to have a sickle that works on a 700 series machine. In fact, I've had 3 of the ones like you have there pass through here over the years. Didn't keep any of them cause I like hydro RBT's.....guess I messed up.
biggie_rat Posted June 27, 2006 Author Posted June 27, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Brent_Baumer Gonna have to come over and check it out. I'd like to have a sickle that works on a 700 series machine. In fact, I've had 3 of the ones like you have there pass through here over the years. Didn't keep any of them cause I like hydro RBT's.....guess I messed up. I found a nice one last week for a 700/7000 but it was the only one I have ever seen, made out of pure gold, according to what he wanted for it. B.R.
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