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Problem with shifting

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I have a Allis Chalmers B-210, and there's a problem that I seem not to be able to solve. When the tractor is not running, it shifts smoothly and without a problem. But, when it is running, it kind of grinds and I have to force-shift into gear in order for it to move. (It will only shift into 1st gear and reverse. But not 2nd or 3rd gear.) What can the problem be? I'd like to note that I recently accquired this tractor today, and the previous owner put two tractors together and did a quick job on some of the parts. The belt size might not be the right one. Could that be it? Another question, I have an automobile coil on the top of the engine. I do suspect that this is not stock? I read somewhere that the automobile coil is 12 volts whereas the original is 10 volts? Would this make a difference? If so, in what way? Where on the engine can I find the serial number? Thanks, Erick Ketcham

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jlasater
Not being familiar with the B-210, it sounds like the clutch isn't disengaging all the way. Quicky test is to put it in gear and hit the starter, with the clutch depressed. If the tractor tries to move at all, it'll be obvious the clutch is at fault.

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Guest
jlasater, Thank you for the 'quicky test' suggestion. I'll definitely try that tomorrow. :o)

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D-17_Dave
Welcome Eric. The belt problem may be as you described, the wrong one. However it may be that there are missing parts such as belt guides and clutch wear parts that would allow the belt to drag causeing these simptoms. The orriginal Briggs engines have a magneto under the flywheel air schroud. When they go bad it's a comon "fix" to forgo removeing the engine to ervice the magneto so they add an external coil whitch seems to be what you now have. The voltage of any coil like this would be whatever the engines bat. voltage is. ie, 12 volt coil on a 12 volt tractor. There isn't anything wrong with this setup but it's just not orriginal. The serial # on the AC's should be on a metalic tag in front of the shifter on your tractor. The decal may be painted over or scratched off. Take some time exploreing the site and reviewing the avaliable forums. Try a search on belt guards on the bevel gear box for a picture of the possible missing belt guides/guards.

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Guest
Dave, You guys are fast! Thanks again for the information... RE: The serial number, I did find the serial number on the frame, but I wasn't able to find the specific engine number... (So that I can order a new magneto, head gasket and new points) I'm unsure if the engine is original to this tractor, so that's why I might need a serial number for the engine. I do know it's a cast-iron Briggs. This site is wonderful and I'm going to join the club. Look forward to it! Thanks again

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UCD
More than likely it is the belt guides out of adjustment and also needs adjustment of the variable shift. On the home page on the top right side where it says Search for Manuals at Simplicity Mfg. Type in MFG# 2029948 or it eqivalent Simplicity Model MFG# 990568 and download the manuals for it. You can also go to this post and follow the direction to down load the B series repair manual you wiill find it in the 500 section. [url]http://www.simpletractors.com/club2/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=32436[/url]

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D-17_Dave
The engine numbers will most likely on the air schroud on the side below the carb. If it is in fact the orriginal engine or a simular replacement it should be a 10 HP engine with the model # of 24343x The x meaning the last number could be several things depending on the orriginallity of the engine. You don't have to replace it but some restore these tractors and will only settle for OEM equipment.

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gregc
As Dave said check the carb side of the shroud first. If you don't find the numbers there check the opposite side and sometimes the numbers are stamped into the top of the shroud. Here's a pic of the carb side of my Big Ten: [img]http://www.simpletractors.com/club2//attach/gregc/btmodel.jpg[/img]

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Guest
Thank you guys. You're great! UCD- unfortunately, my model isn't availabe in PDF file, but I have a Landlord manual coming in the mail. (The sister model of my Allis Chalmers) I will refer to the adjustments for the belt. Thank you for the tips. They're very helpful. D-17 Dave & Gregc I'm a serious restorer. I used to restore Speedex Tractors, but I have come to see that Allis Chalmers/Simplicity Tractors are built much better. So, I'm going down that 'Allis Chalmers' path. That external coil is going to find itself in my 'extra parts' box and I'm going to return it to its original state. Thank you for the serial # location information. That'll help me a lot. The engine has a pattina on it, not rusted through, but a good thick coating of pattina. It'll take a while to strip it down and restore that engine. In time, I'll know enough to contribute and return the favor. Count on it. :o)

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RayS

This should be of some help until you get a manual. If you download the manual for a Simplicity 3210 it will also be in that pdf file. There`s a pdf. manual available for you for the B 210. But it is a parts manual only. It doesn`t show how to adjust the variable speed. http://www.simplicitytechpubs.com/6767PRINT/PDF_files/TP_400_3774_00_XX_A.pdf

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UCD
Erick If you had read all of my post you woulld see that I gave you the equivalent simplicity MFG# 990568 Also the link to how you can download the B series repair manual. You can also download the Parts and owners manuals for the Allis Chalmers B-210 from that site. I know they are available as I have them in my computer. These manuals are available on that site B1, B10, B12 Big Ten PARTS B110, B112, and HB112 Parts Manual B-1, B-10, B-12, B-110, and B-112 Attachments Parts Manual B-210, B-212, HB-212 Parts manual Allis Chalmers B Series REPAIR MANUAL I could give you the links but if I do that you will not learn how to get other manuals you need. This link is to the link for the manuals and the instructions on how to find them and download them. [url]http://www.simpletractors.com/club2/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=32436[/url]

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Guest
Ray S- Thank you for the picture. My variator looks a little bit different. I don't see the lever or the guides or the belt stop on my tractor. I don't see a high/speed shifter neither... I do see two pulleys side to side, one bigger and one smaller. My guess is that the entire hi/low system is missing? UCD- Thank you for the information. I did spend an hour searching through the manuals and followed directions down to the button. I'm sure I just need to fine-tune my understanding of that system. I'll definitely take the time to learn it better. Thanks again. :)

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Guest
UCD- I would like to add that I did download the B series manual, but the hyperlinks to the specific parts didn't work. Does it work for you still? Thanks Erick

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Kent
Ray posted the diagram for the correct pulleys and linkage for a B-210. Are you sure it is really a B-210? Or, are you perhaps looking at the wrong side of the transmission?

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Guest
UCD- When I downloaded (last night) the B series manual, and clicked on the hyperlinks to download, I got the following error message: "Internet Explorer cannot download (file name) .pdf from simplicitytecpubs.com. Internet explorer was not able to open this internet file. The File is not found. Please try again. I tried it today as well with the same results.

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Guest
Kent, I'm sure it's a B-210. There's a sticker on the tractor that says it's B-210 with hydraulic lift. Looks exactly like B-210's when I look at the pictures. The frame serial number confirms that it's a B-210. Basically, this tractor came from a farm that died in the 70's. So, the owner used it to mow and farm the remaining used fields. And somewhere down the road, 2 Allis Chalmers got taken apart and was left apart in an old barn. A few years ago, the caretaker of the dead farm (9 houses on one property, all owned by the same person...) took the two tractors apart and put one together. The only problem is, he really did a quick job on it. There are so many bolts missing, and the tractor barely works. It leaks at the head of the engine, but it starts. It mows, and drives in 1st gear and reverse. I got a roto tiller with it and a mowing deck. The tractor is in pretty solid shape, though. The parts looks like they're mostly there with the exception of missing as many as 50 bolts and maybe some key parts. I'm not sure if both tractors were B-210's. I only know that the end result tells me that it's mostly a B-210. The part where the rod goes to, and spins a pulley near the shifter- that's where I see the double pulley. One is bigger, one is smaller. It's possible that the pulley itself came off something else. Everything however, looks original to me. So it's very hard for me to tell if that specific part is original, and missing parts, or if it's not original, and throwing me off the track. I do have a big task ahead of me... :o)

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Kent
These pulleys -- are they on the left side of the tractor, sitting in the seat? If so, that is the PTO and not the variable speed. The variable speed is on the right side of the tractor... Either you're looking at the wrong side, or someone has butchered/cobbled up the machine...

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Guest
Kent, P.s. I'm sure I'm looking at the right side. I'm looking at the right-hand side of the transmission if you were sitting at the wheel. The rear pulley, the one that turns the gears in the rear- has one pulley, and it doesn't look shift-able at all. Then, there's that 2nd pulley that tightens and loosens the belt. Then there's that pulley in the front in which the engine rod turns. That specific pulley is the one I am referring to. It has 2 pulleys on it. My guess is at one time, there was a shifter as shown in the picture that moves the belt from the smaller to the bigger pulley and that part is missing. Either you're supposed to change the belt by hand (which I would think would be silly if they had all of the other options available) or, the double pulley is not supposed to be there, and in place a variator type pulley is supposed to be there? I really can't tell. I've worked on several tractors myself, and I am very mechanically inclined. I guess, I'll have to study all the pulleys from the B series and figure out if the caretaker might have taken a pulley off a B-110 or any other B series tractor. (Or something like that.)

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Guest
Kent, It's very possible. The caretaker was obviously only interested in getting it to move and to mow. The entire shift cover isn't bolted down. The steering column cover isn't bolted down. The hood isn't bolted down. There's a piece of wood wedged in the rear where the tiller hooks up to on the tractor. (To make up for a missing part.) It's really sad that someone would treat a beautiful piece of machinery that way. Luckily, I got it for free, and is the best freebie I ever got. Generally, everything looks like it's there. I'd think the only thing missing are the bolts and the proper pulley system. Thankfully, nothing was stripped, drilled, welded, or modified. Thankfully. So, it does have a bright future...

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Kent
Well, all I can say is here's what it is supposed to look like: [img]http://www.simpletractors.com/images/1968_ac/feature_1.jpg[/img] http://www.simpletractors.com/models/b_series/1968_cat/features.htm That info is from the previous year, describing the B-112. The same system was standard on both the B-210 and B-212.

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Guest
I just took a look at the tractor again and compared it with the diagram. The rear pulley is the correct one, but the idler pulley as named in the diagram is missing and in place, there is a double pulley there. Would you know where I can find an idler pulley as well as the linkage to the speed lever as well as the speed lever itself? Also, I am in need of the belt guard that's above the belt between the rear pulley and the idler pulley as well as the belt stop. I just thought about this, and how it would connect and I pictured it in my mind, and now I get it... That's definitely why the gears are engaging in the gearbox when it shouldn't be. There is some kind of drag on the belt- even though the clutch is pressed down all the way. The next thing for me to try- get the tractor started (Have to jump start) and then from there, press the clutch and see if the belt moves at all, or if it has drag.

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Guest
Kent, I agree with you 100%. Now that I have taken a good look and compared the tractor with the picture, that's definitely the problem. If you looked at the one you just posted, I am missing the entire shifting link assembly. Also, the idler pulley, the one that's on the far right- instead of that, I have two pulleys on it. That's another problem I have. Do you know where I can find the entire assembly as well as that pulley on the far right?

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Guest
Kent, I would like to thank you for all of your help. This goes for everyone else that helped me. Thank you very much. My problem is solved... The next hurdle for me is to locate the parts. Erick

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Guest
There's something that puzzles me... How is the high/low implemented in this gear system? Does the rear pulley "open up" to provide a slower speed or something like that?

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Guest
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