MatthewS Posted June 19, 2006 Posted June 19, 2006 I know this is a little off topic but hopefully someone out there can help me out. I am working on a cub cadet 1200 and am having problems with the electric PTO. when installed the PTO is acting as a brake and stopping the engine. If anyone can help me out with why it might be doing this it would be greatly appreciated. The entire clutch assemby was just replaced brand new because I thought the electronics in the old one were bad, but the new one is doing the same thing. PLease help. Thanks, Matthew
ZippoVarga Posted June 19, 2006 Posted June 19, 2006 I had the same thing happening to a friends tractor. She brought it over and what I found was two things. One, it was wired incorrectly and second, it was improperly adjusted. These two variables were causing the clutch to act like a brake. With the electro magnet which energizes to force the clutch plate to engage the drive shaft out of adjustment it was hitting the flex plate. It should only pull the clutch plates together with out rubbing on anything else. The wiring problem was that the Electro Magnet was wired through the regulator rectifier instead of having it's own stand alone circuit directly from the battery with a fuse between the battery and clutch. I do not know if this will help or not but it's what I found wrong with my friends CC1200. Good luck!! Sean
ZippoVarga Posted June 19, 2006 Posted June 19, 2006 JP makes a good point. Try actuating the PTO with nothing attached to it. Then try to rotate the engine by hand a little to see if it's rubbing on anything. If it still stalls the engine while running then you may look at the things I found wrong. Also, the old original switch that was used to actuate the clutch was bad. May try a new one or a different one. Sean
ZippoVarga Posted June 19, 2006 Posted June 19, 2006 well, JP's point was that there may have been an issue with the implement and not the clutch. Which was a good one to make.
MatthewS Posted June 19, 2006 Author Posted June 19, 2006 I believe the wiring is correct, it currently has a wire comining from the ignition to a fuse, then from the fuse to the switch, and then from the switch to the electromagnet. As far as the plate I tried taking the entire front of the clutch off (the pulley that would go to the deck and the cover that holds it on) and as long as the inner parts were still installed it continued to stop the engine, if I move the inner clutch piece (not the electro magnet) away from the electro magnet the engine runs fine. ???? any more insight would be much appreciated Thanks, Matthew
MatthewS Posted June 19, 2006 Author Posted June 19, 2006 its not the implement as it does this with the belts removed and the engine is almost impossible to turn by hand when the clutch is locked up. Thanks, Matthew
ZippoVarga Posted June 19, 2006 Posted June 19, 2006 Matthew, You do not want these parts to touch. The electro magnet should touch NOTHING when energized. All it does is pull the spring loaded clutch plate to the drive shaft. They are the torsion type springs, not a typical coiled spring. If memory serves there are three of them at an extreme angle and riveted to either side of the pto pulley itself. Like I stated, the pto clutch plate and drive shaft plate should NOT touch the Electric Magnet when energized. If they do, they'll act like a brake and shut the engine down. You are on the right track with adjusting the electro magnet AWAY from the pto clutch plate. Sean
ZippoVarga Posted June 19, 2006 Posted June 19, 2006 Correct adjustment depends on the load to the clutch. Once you can turn the engine by hand with the clutch energized, turn the adjustment screws out another 3/4-1 turn then try your implement. If you notice slipping then adjust in 1/4 turn at a time on all 4 points.
jlasater Posted June 19, 2006 Posted June 19, 2006 The Cub 582 Special I have has the electric clutch set with a feeler guage at .010" to .015" clearance through the three square holes spaced around the clutch between the two friction surfaces. Not sure if yours is different or not. The clutch works exactly the same as a clutch on the air conditioner in your car.
dirtsaver Posted June 19, 2006 Posted June 19, 2006 It depends on which particular PTO you have but most of the ones for Cub should have an airgap of 10-15 thousands. Most PTO clutch problems come after the clutch has a lot of hours on it. At that point the friction material wears off and the airgap widens,requireing more current to pull in the clutch and causing excess drain on the battery.(just some info for later).We tend to see this a lot. Also be aware some of the PTO clutches are not adjustable, but if yours has three studs with nuts on them it is designed to be field adjusted. added by LWB: I just looke back and saw I gave the wrong airgap settings, Jeremys setting are right and I corrected mine so not to confuse anyone.
ZippoVarga Posted June 19, 2006 Posted June 19, 2006 Larry, his particular clutch has four adjustment nuts and a total throw with fine thread adjustment of about 5/8ths of an inch. It appears to me as though his electro magnet is making contact with the clutch plate, effectively making a brake out of the pto and also eroding the epoxy coating on the mag.
MatthewS Posted June 19, 2006 Author Posted June 19, 2006 so should there be spacers on the shaft of the engine to hold the elctromagnet away from the first part of the clutch that is removable and is the first contact for the clutch drive surface. The adjustment bolts only seem to affect the movement of the second clutch surface. Thanks for all the help so far Matthew
dirtsaver Posted June 19, 2006 Posted June 19, 2006 Sean that does seem kind of weird. I think you're right that he needs to get the clutch open enough to get the engine turning first, then adjust the clutch. I still am curious why the clutch is that tight. Maybe a Monday/Friday made unit I guess.
MatthewS Posted June 19, 2006 Author Posted June 19, 2006 this particular clutch has four adjustment bolts and comes apart into three main pieces, the electromagnet, the inner clutch surface which is keyed to the flywheel , and the outer clutch surface which spins free on the end of the flywheel
ZippoVarga Posted June 19, 2006 Posted June 19, 2006 Matthew, You have the PTO side and the Drive shaft side with the electro magnet between the two. Just make sure there is an air gap between the mag and either clutch. I know what you are going through with thinking there should be shimms to force the parts to where they should be. But there's only springs. 4 coil springs and the three tortion springs I mentioned earlier. It's a balance between the three parts that will get you to where you need to be. Larry, it went against all logical reasoning with me when I was working on it. It seemed TOTALLY backwards, but it worked when set that way. I'm not one to question when something works....lol.
MatthewS Posted June 19, 2006 Author Posted June 19, 2006 I was going to try posting some pictures to make it easier but when I go to reply I don;t have the paper clip option any ideas?. these pictures show the order I tried assembling it. I'm still a little confused as to what is supposed to keep the electromagnet from contacting the part of the PTO that is keyed and driven by the flywheel.
D-17_Dave Posted June 19, 2006 Posted June 19, 2006 Matthew, non-members can't post pics or post links. That's why you don't have the paper clip option on your reply heading. That said, I'm not familiar with the style clutch your useing. The only time I've seen a floating clutch lock an engine up is when the bearings that allow the floating coil to not spin locked up. This caused the holding tab to lock the engine down tight. You said you replaced the clutch so that should take care of that potential problem. I would check that bearing anyway. Don't take anything for granted. Also if there are any spacers or washers missing from the assembly you could tighen the bolt that holds the clutch on the crank down placeing extreme preload on the bearing packs and locking the clutch assembly. I'd try checking the bearings, then place the clutch on the shaft and watch for when things get tight while tighjtening things down. It must be a bad clutch bearing pack, a miss-adjusted clutch, or an improperly installed clutch.
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