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bigkenroberts

S/G or starter-alternator (7016 vs 7016)

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bigkenroberts
I have a Allis 716H Briggs, with a small throw-out automotive-style starter and (I assume) a magneto charge system. I assume this is what is called an S/G system. I am looking at a Simplicity 7016H Briggs, and the pictures show a large starter (belt driven) on the right side which I assume is the starter-alternator system. I'm nervous about this setup due to the "moving parts" issue (constant belt drive) VS. the "solid state" (sort of) magneto. Are there any big issues with this. This is the older side-headlight 7016 so I assume the starter/alternator system is older and the magneto system is newer (and better ?). Comments appreciated - - - NOTE: I did see and download the wiring diagrams that are posted on the board. Thanx to the poster.

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HubbardRA
Ken, First of all don't get the magneto confused with the charging system. Both engines that you mentioned have magnetos if they are B/S. The magneto fires the ignition on the engine, which has nothing to do with the charging system. Your later model 716H should have had a Kohler engine on it from the factory, unless it has been changed. My 716H came with a Kohler. If it had a Kohler, then it would not have a magneto, but would have a battery-coil ignition. I don't want to confuse you, since the ignition and the charging system are separate and either ignition system can work with either charging system. A starter-generator is the external unit that you mentioned with the belt. That single unit functions as a starter when power is applied to it from the ignition switch, but once the engine starts, it will function as a generator and charge the battery. If the engine has an alternator, it is mounted underneath the flywheel, and the engine will then have a separate bendix-type starter bolted to the side. Anyway, I now have a B/S on my 716H with the starter-generator system on it. The starter-generator is the external unit that is belt driven. They work fine. I have them on both my 716H and my 713S. I also have a 7116H that I am going to rebuild and am planning to put one of the starter-generator units on. The reason is that the separate, bendix-type starter had been removed from the engine before I bought it. Since a new bendix-type starter is over $100, and I happen to have a couple extra starter-generator units laying around, I decided to do the conversion. I have not had any problems with either type of charging system. I consider both types to be reliable. You didn't say whether the 7016H was the whole tractor, or just the engine. If you are just buying the engine, you will also need the voltage regulator which mounts underneath the dashboard on that tractor.

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bigkenroberts
My 716H is Briggs - Model=326437, Code=0252 Type=790227. Allis used Briggs on later inside-headlight 716H's. I did replace the starter in the spring - about $50. So I guess this changes my question. Is the large combined starter-alternator a good setup or is the separate small direct-drive starter and alternator underneath a better way to go? Whole tractor - the current owner says it has difficulty starting but he doesn't seem mechanically inclined and can't say whether it's gas or spark. When I had difficulties with my 716 starting, it was a poor connection thru the solenoid, which was causing low activation voltage. Bought a new solenoid (cheap), made sure it was grounded (this is frame ground) and used a small cable clamp to attach the blue activation wire - which for some strange reason had a push-on friction-type connection. Fires first turn. If I buy, and need an alternator-generator, I may make you an offer for your extra unit if I but the tractor. This thing looks big and expensive.

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D-17_Dave
The Starter/Generator is the older design. While it works it works great. When it fails it's more difficult to address. Personnally I would go with the later model bendix style starter and solid state chargeing systems. It will start the larger engines more efficiantly. Plus the fact that late model parts are easier and cheaper to find now.

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bigkenroberts
Dave (and HubbardRA) thanx for the responses. Dave, you confirmed my guess. The large starter-alternator belt-driven combo looks like a maintenence nightmare vs. the small bendix starter. Like I say, I replaced my bendix starter on the 716 for about $50 brand new - - - Now I gotta figure whether I want to drive 9 hours up and 9 hours back for a unit with starting/running issues. The kid wants $300, which is OK - but gasoline isn't free anymore and it's a non-freeway drive most of the way, which says "local traffic tickets". I just wish he was more mechanically inclined so I could do some long-distance diagnostics. Maybe just a plugged-up gas supply. Oh well - I got a week to figure this out. Also - thanx to whoever posted the wiring diagrams - - -

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HubbardRA
Ken, I drove from my home to Lancaster PA last Saturday to pick up a Landlord for my son. 3 1/2 hours up there, but with traffic problems, and a couple missed turns, it was about 5 hours back. He was lucky and got the tractor for $52 off ebay. It is missing the hood and rear fenders. He hasn't gotten it running yet. By-the-way, I do not really want to sell either of the starter-generators that I have. One is earmarked for the 7116, unless I decide to buy one of the original starters. The other, I want to keep as a spare, since I have two tractors with that type system on them, and now my son has a tractor with a starter-generator on it also. I buy a lot of my spare parts from ebay by just putting in relatively small bids and waiting for an occasional bargain to come around. I haven't found one of the late model starters yet, that didn't bring top dollar. That engine from the 7116H is the only B/S that I have which doesn't use a starter-generator. Two reasons that I like starter-generators. First is that all of them put out between 10-15 amps. While some of the later model alternator units are as low as 3 amps, which will not keep up with electric clutches, lights, etc. Second reason is that they can be replaced by removing two wires and three bolts. Back up and running in a matter of minutes with a replacement unit. The alternators are under the flywheel of the engine, which requires that the engine be removed from the tractor, and the flywheel removed from the engine to work on the alternator. As I get older, I go more for easy maintenance.

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tec2484
I had a local starter rebuilding shop put new bearings in and clean up a s/g and it cost me a whopping $ 15. I always pay with cash and don't ask for a receit. Its a small shop and they are real good people. I only had one starter I had to take back and they fixed it while I waited and gave me my cash back for the inconvenience.

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Kenh
Any body can correct me if I'm wrong, maybe I only got lucky..... Find a junk engine with a bendix type starter on it. Transfer parts between your old starter and the "new to you" starter. I did this on my 7116H and a "new" 15hp briggs that some one ran out of oil. My cost was only my labor to swap parts. I got the junk engine for free. Ken

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Jovee
While we're on this subject, not having two side by side, are the S/G sused on the Briggs the same units that are used on the Kohlers? If not, what are the differences? Rod - You came to PA without that Sears? lol

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maxtorman1234
My S/G on the briggs has the bushings, where as my sg on the kohler has ball bearings, i dont know if all briggs had bushings, or if some had ball bearings as well. other than that, they will interchange if the pulley and regulator is the same.

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Jovee
Is there much difference in the regulators? My experience is limited to the stator systems. A friend recently asked if I had a S/G for a K241 and all I had was one from an old horizontal 16 Briggs. I have a S/G on an 8hp Briggs on one of the 728s. Would the regulation be different between that and the 16 even though they are briggs? I sound like a dummy again

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HubbardRA
Joe, the regulators should be basically the same. I have changed between the large ones and the smaller ones, with no problems. Sorry Joe, Guess I forgot to bring the Sears to you. By the way, how far are you from Lancaster?

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