Jump to content

Unofficial Home of Old Simplicity & Allis-Chalmers Garden Tractors

Sign in to follow this  
Simpleton7016

Generator-vs-geared starter

Recommended Posts

Simpleton7016
I am still trying to determine which tractor to make my summer tractor and which one to make the winter tractor. I am considering a number of factors and I still can't make a decision. I don't know why I am spending so much time deliberating about this. I guess because my wife keeps making fun of me (in a loving way) about having two tractors. In fact, she routinely makes the following joke when in the presence of family and friends: If you have more than one tractor.....you might be a redneck. I always counter her little joke with a comment about how much time I save by not having to switch attachments back and forth between the machines. Time that I can spend with her or the kids or shopping for gifts, etc. That's why it always makes me smile when I see one of you guys post pictures of your "fleet" with one tractor for every attachment! Keep 'em coming, it makes me look like less of a redneck! :) Anyway, I have chronicled some of the factors I have considered in making my decision. Nothing has produced a definitive answer. First is the "knucklebusting argument". The 7016 seems to have more hood clearance near the hydrostatic lever than does the 912. This is more a product of the way I grip the lever than anything else. But you can't teach an old dog new tricks. On the one hand, the "summer tractor" will get more use, therefore, more smashed knuckles. On the other hand, it hurts a lot more to smash your knuckles in the winter. Conclusion: it's a horse apiece.

Next, both engines are 16 horse Briggs and both are "newer" engines, very strong, with a lot of life left on them. The 912 was built in 1988 and the 7016 in 1990. Conclusion: a horse apiece. Next, the 912 is an inch or two longer than the 7016 so it is probably just a tad less maneuverable for mowing around trees, but not enough to make that big of a different. Next, my snow cab will fit on either unit so that won't come into play. The only other big difference is the starters. The 912 has a geared electric starter and the 7016 has a starter/generator.

My question for the group: is one starter preferable to the other for cold winter starts? This will be my first winter with the 912 and it sure starts nice in the warm weather....but might is start harder in the winter?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Simpleton7016
yeah...my fingers currently stop it! :) Kent, thanks for the insight. I am thinking that the 912 will be the "winter tractor". I will just have to change over the front clutch from the 7016.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
UCD
I believe the difference in length is in the frame in front of front axle not in the wheel base. The thing that would make the decision for me would be the center PTO drive for the snowblower on the 916. In over 30 years of blowing snow with Simplicity tractors I have used both systems and have had all the problems you can have plus with both systems. You can modify the 7016 to drive the blower off from the center PTO but is not as dependable and trouble free as the factory system with factory belt. I prefer the setup that is on the 916. Granted the belt is more expensive but less problems with snow build up and belt slippage less parts and less moving parts, just an all around better setup. On the 7790 the engine will stall before the belt slips.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Simpleton7016
Ah...I did not know that the actual wheel bases were not different. I only eyeballed the actual frames and the 912 is noticable longer. I hope I can throw snow for 30 years with this machine....but minus the problems! 'Tis better to learn from others mistakes than to learn from your own....so thanks for the tips. Question: I do not run my snowthrower from the center PTO. I put a front PTO on the 7016 last winter and had zero problems once it was all installed correctly (countless problems getting to that point though:)). In your experience, do you prefer to run it from the center PTO than the front PTO? The front PTO is pretty slick, but I take it from your comments that I can attach to the center PTO on the 912 with no modifications. Maybe this will be easier than changing the front clutch over from the 7016....especially if it is a better, preferrable and more functional set-up!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BrianP
Nice to know the "loving" needling is a constant amongst significant others. But then I get to give her the business about her hobbies in return;) Can't really help you on your decision, all my machines (currently 2 but hopefully a 3rd soon to be added) have the starter generator. Mine have proven trouble-free for all my years of ownership, so if durability counts, weigh that aspect as well. Can anybody tell me what the (electrical?) socket is for on the 7016 just above the "Hydrostatic" decal? I have a 7016 also, but mine's not fitted with one of these.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
UCD
I think you will have problems using the Front PTO on the 916 because of the longer front frame and having to use aftermarket belts because of the length. The 7016 is designed to operate off from the front PTO. You have to do modifications to the tractor PTO to operate the 7016 from the center PTO. The 916/7100 series is designed to operate off from the center PTO not a front PTO. If the 7016 is already setup to blow snow use it instead of going to the expense and time to setup the 916. You can do it anyway you want but why cause your self problems inherit with modifications when you don't have to. Brian It is an aftermarket owner add-on most likely to power a sprayer or other electrical attachments.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Simpleton7016
Thanks Maynard et al. I suspect I am not the only guy in the world that likes to do things right the first time. The problem is that I rarely do! Honest to heavens, if I have a 50/50 chance of getting something right, I ALWAYS get it wrong. Just this morning I went to open the blinds in the living room. There are four sets of blinds. Each has two strings - one to raise and one to lower. Do you know that I picked the wrong sting all four times! Unbelievable! So, I want to get the tractors set up right the first time. The status quo is working for now I suppose, but everytime I mow with the 7016 I think to myself, gosh the 912 might be better for this. Then, I see my wife looking out the window and shaking her head as I mow with a ridiculously loud 7016 with an obnoxiously large and blaze orange vacuum collector towing behind it. Of course, it doesn't help that the neighbor just bought a nice new 23 horse Cub Cadet that is very quiet. :) Anyway, the 912 is in much better shape and is was more easy on the eyes - ie less embarrassing for my wife! Fortunately, she is more cheap than she is embarrassed - so I will get to keep my babies for the time being! Who knows what I will end up doing, but thanks for all the input. No matter which way I opt, I will always wish I'd have chosen the other. :) Oh and Brian, I was told that electrical socket on the side was possibly to hook up an external charging system. It is not operational at this time but I may try to make it work some day. Erik

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PhanDad
I don't have a problem with belt length running a 7000 series front PTO snowblower hitch on a 7100 (A/C 900) series tractor. That's what I'm doing on my GTHL and it's OK. The geometry between the front pivoting axle (over which the hitch mounts) and the engine location with a 16 HP Briggs is the same so the belt is OK. Before I acquired the 7000 series hitch, I was using a FDT hitch, and belt length was an issue (the mounting "arms" on the 7000 series hitch are longer and the snowblower head sits further from the front axle. Another consideration are hills on your property. I've found the 7100 series tractors to be more "top heavy" than the 7000 series. I've taken some pics of the differences, but haven't posted them yet. So if you mow some slopes, I'd use the 7000 series for mowing. PS - the pics show most of the increased length of the 7100 tractor is hood in front of the front axle, but the wheelbase is a bit longer. I'll try to post the pics soon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Simpleton7016
Heck, we barely needed it here but once or twice a winter for the last few. Having said that, I hope we get blasted with an ungodly amount of snow sometime in the next few years. I plan to snowblow all the snow from the entire yard into one humungous pile for my boys to play on! And the best part about my plan is that I can disguise my tractor time as "doing something for the kids". Woohoo! Have any of you ever done this? Blown your snow into on huge "king of the hill" pile? Just wondering if there is a downside other than having to mow around it until it is done melting in July!! I will have to keep the skids off the ground a bit to keep from chewing up the grass....I wonder if this will add any extra stress to my machine. Thoughts? Did the engineers design the throwers to be used firm to the ground?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
wantedinct
Here's my 2 cents,for winter i think you need to set one up with a plow, and the other with a snowthrower and a cab, for summer,you set one up with just a mower deck, and the other one you set up with a deck and a vac set-up !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
firefoxz1
Learn something new everyday. I purchased a snowblower from a 7116 this past winter from my uncles estate and was going to mount it on my 7012H this fall, but after reading this thread I think I better mount it on the 7112H instead. And I was thinking of selling the 7112H.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ZippoVarga
I'm with Thomas on this one Erik. In the time it takes to switch the implements from summer to winter mode, I would just do both. I have no trouble justifying my change over time from mower deck to dozer blade on my 64 LL when I think the 64 Broadmoor wont handle the dozer task at hand. But I only mow with the LL because the 2 speed transaxle on the broadmoor just doesnt cut it for mowing more than 1/2 acre. (Slow poke) So the Broadmoor never gets its blade taken off. So as you can see....I have a broader spectrum for reasoning than you do with your two very similar tractors. But I would still consider Thomas' idea of using them both for all seasons. IMO Sean

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
B.Ikard
quote:
Originally posted by JJ MARSHALL
WHAT'S WRONG WITH REDNECKS ? JJ
I have been wondering that too.....I think it is acceptable normal behavior-in my circles anyway:) Guess it is a Southern thing...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Simpleton7016
quote:
quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by JJ MARSHALL WHAT'S WRONG WITH REDNECKS ? JJ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have been wondering that too.....I think it is acceptable normal behavior-in my circles anyway Guess it is a Southern thing...
Good point....maybe I am misinterpreting her comments and she is really using it as a term of endearment! If so, perhaps she is subtly encouraging me to buy more tractors! Woohoo. Jeff Foxworthy she wants.....Jeff Foxworthy she will get!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
maxtorman1234
I dont think it matters where you blow snow, as long as you dont run into anything on the ground. I blow paths around the yard all the time so its easier to get around in the foot or more of snow we usually get.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Simpleton7016
I am an idiota! More to come later on that later...I have kid duty now....but I have been granted tractor time later today! woohoo. In short, my mind has changed. Too late though....I already made the transition! I changed the AG tires, weights deck and vac system over to the 912. Bad move! Since that time, I have lucked into the hydro lift and the hard front windshield for the cab. While both of them will work on the 7016...both will require some modifications (especially the cab that I have. The reason I chose this way was because I had the front PTO for the snowthrower on the 7016. Both should install much easier in the 912 but I need a front PTO on that machine! I remember that when I put the front PTO on the 7016 (in the dead of the cold winter), I did not take my time and had to put some extra exertion into the installation and for that reason, I think it will be difficult to just take off. Sooooo, I am going to change everything back to make the 912 the "winter tractor". Sheez! In the words of my ever patient grandfather "that's OK, I like doing things twice!". So I am opting to buy another front PTO assembly for a 16 horse Briggs (see classifieds). Lloyd, I got the first one from you....do you have another? Gosh I hate to change the tires and stuff all over again!! But thanks to everyone for the input here! It just goes to show that you're darned if you do, darned if you don't. I think I said before here that when it comes down to a 50/50 chance, I ALWAYS chose the wrong 50! The good news is that my wife has no idea what I was doing the last time I was granted "tractor time" (and she could care less about my little hobby) so she won't know that I am redoing my work! :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  

×