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Ketchamized

Strange B-210 wiring problems (Updated)

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Ketchamized
I recently purchased an excellent 80% restored AC B-210 on ebay for $50.00- this has brand new ignition, voltage regulator, solenoid, cables, wires- in short, an entire brand new electrical system. The previous owner couldn't figure out why his tractor wouldn't start so he sold it on ebay to me. I figured it out- the safety switch was broken. So, I bypassed the safety switch and tied the wires together. Now it will turn over at the ignition... (But not actually start, since the carb needs tuning- an entirely different issue that I can deal with at another time) But, now there's a new problem. This is the wiring diagram for my tractor, and this is how it's set up on my B-210: [img]/club2/attach/ketchamized/Wiring.jpg[/img] Okay, here goes... The fuse at the ammeter keeps blowing out. I can't figure out why. The tractor will start, but only when I bypass the fuse... And I can feel a "ticking/clicking" noise at the connection, and the wire gets hot. So, obviously a short. But how? The wires are brand new. Also, in the diagram, I circled/outline a wire and the mag. Right now, that wire isn't connected at all. How exactly is this wire supposed to be connected to the mag? Do I splice it in the wire going out from the points/condensor to the mag? I've connected the wiring exactly according to the diagram. Can't figure out what's wrong. The ammeter is original and slightly rusted. Not sure if that's where it's shorting out? Does anyone here have a diagram showing exactly which wires are connected at the ignition switch? (I noticed letters on the back of the ignition switch- but the diagram doesn't specify which is connected to what. It's the only one I've got.) At present moment, the only way I can get it to start is to keep the battery disconnected... Then connect it, touch the wires at where the fuse is supposed to be... Click click click... Turn on the ignition switch. Let go of the wires, engine turns over, but doesn't start. (Is this so, because I disconnected that fuse wire? I do know my carb needs to be tuned...) Thanks in advance for the help, sincerely appreciated.

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tractormike
I would try taking the wire from the ammeter to the voltage regulator off and see if your problem goes away. If it does go away then your problem could be in the regulator or the starter-generator. The needle showing discharge is telling you that there is a heck of a load trying to drain the battery. Keep isolating components untill the needle doesn't peg to the left and you have found the part that needs attention.

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firefoxz1
If they had the meter out for some reason (repaint) they may not have put the isolator washers back in around the bracket of the meter. I have seen this many times. Ceheck to see if either of the meters posts are shorted to ground. if not someone may have the two little wires running to the soleniod reversed at the soleniod.

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Al
Hi, Will answer here instead of the PM message. The B term of the switch should go to the wire from the ammeter. The S terminal should go to the safety switch. The M terminal should go to the engine magneto. The cover over the points should have a small insulator with a bolt and nut in it. the wire from the coil, your kill wire and a wire that goes under the cover and connects to the point condenser junction. This insulator block should be mounted whit the top screw of the point cover. It appears to me as if the solenoid is shorted internally. This sometimes happens if the terminal screw gets twisted around when the nuts holding the wire terminals are tightened or removed. This twists the coil wires internally and may cause them to twist and touch the housing inside. Try taking a wire with a fuse connector and a fuse in it and just jump from the terminal with the battery cable on it and the small terminal of the solenoid. If it blows the fuse in this test lead, the solenoid is bad. Al

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captwayne
It sounds to me as if the ignition switch is the wrong one for this unit. If it has been replaced with one that is running power to the magneto instead of a ground when in the off position that would cause a short as you described. A lot of the old Kohlers had a point system where they needed power from the switch to run, whereas the Briggs usually always needed just a ground to the mag. to shut them off.

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UCD
I have run into this problem several times on tractors I have bought that didn't run and the stater generator would not turn the engine over using the key switch. First thing I check is the fuse and 100% of the time the fuse is blown. I just bought a 3212 with a add on push button starter and and kill switch and a half mile of wire. No fuse in the fuse holder and it was connected to the light switch. I connected my Jump pack red lead to the battery side of the solenoid and black to the housing of the S/G and it turned over. I then connected the red lead to the Battery side of the solenoid and then jumped from the switch terminal to the battery side of the solenoid and it turned over. I then cleaned all of wire connections on the solenoid and S/G put a fuse in the fuse holder turned the key and it turned over. I then removed the half mile of excess wiring and push button starter including the extra kill switch. I then tackled the points replacing there rubber terminal block new gasket new points and condenser. when I went to connect the wire from the coil the end terminal on the wire fell off, replaced that set the points gap turned the key and it started. This engine had not run in 10 years. The cause of all the problems as far as I could determine was the fuse blowing due to high current resistance in the wire connections because of dirty corroded connections and a open wire in the terminal end of the points coil wire. The biggest most common cause of blown fuses at the ampmeter gauge is dirty corroded wire connection in the start circuit. The other most common cause is as Al states above a shorted solenoid or short in the starter side of the S/G.

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Ketchamized
Guys, Thank you so much for the information & advice. I will go through everything that everyone here suggested. I'll start by cleaning the ammeter contacts and do the rest of the suggestions here. (The Ammeter is the only electrical contact that's slightly rusted on this tractor.) Again, thank you, very much appreciated. :)

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Ketchamized
UPDATE: After I did all the below listed things, I finally hooked up my old voltage regulator from my other tractor- and it worked! The needle stayed in the center when the key was at 'off' position, and the needle moved slightly to the left, not that much. Engine turned over. Put back in 'off' position, needle went back to center... BUT... But the voltage regulator got really hot and started to smoke a little bit and I could feel a lot of clicking inside the regulator. I disconnected the battery & tried again. It worked fine momentarily & then the same thing happened when I tried again. This time, the needle moved back and forth quickly. Tried it a 3rd time, worked good, then voltage regulator got hot and started to smoke again. I re-connected the new voltage regulator, and the needle went to the extreme left as it did before. Unhooked that, re-connected the old voltage regulator- it was perfect... Then when I turned the key, it started to smoke & click. (It never did that before on the other tractor) So far, it seems to be related to the voltage regulator somehow. Or the wiring around it. Perhaps the old voltage regulator isn't as responsive as the new one so the old regulator doesn't "complain" as much? Here's what I did: -Cleaned all the contacts, removed excessive wiring, everything's 100% clean. Didn't make a difference. -Checked the meter, it has the plastic washers intact, and ammeter isn't shorted. Didn't work. -Connected my old ignition switch from other tractor to this one. Didn't make a difference. -Checked solenoid. Seems to be in working order. -Made sure everything was connected properly. -Took the wire from the ammeter to the voltage regulator off, the problem was temporarily fixed. According to Tractormike, this is due to a faulty regulator or generator/starter. See above.. Odd.

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Ketchamized
In addition to the above, I noticed there are two black wires coming from behind the engine housing (from where the mag is.) One of them is medium in thickness. The other is thinner. The thicker one goes behind the points cover and to the points. The thinner one connects to that little tab thats screwed in by the top screw & it's supposed to be insulated? (That's supposed to be where the white kill wire from the ignition is supposed to be connected to, right?). The little tab looked to be just a piece of metal with two holes in it? Didn't look insulated to me? How is it supposed to be insulated? Another thing that puzzles me- isn't the black mag wire supposed to go behind the casing and through the hole in the points area? And isn't there supposed to be just one wire going to the points/condensor? Thanks guys...

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