Update: Shuttle Reverse Planetary Repair

[Roy]

Update: Test drove tractor today. Had to readjust the band some but everything seems to work OK. :) Repaired the reverse planetary assembly on my 7013S today. Used a housing and brake band I got from Rod Hubbard and my existing cover plates, sun gears, main thrust bushing, and bearings. My thrust bearing was slightly loose in the housing so I used a touch of Fel-Pro Tight (same as Loc-Tite) to ensure it will not spin in the housing. In retrospect it could be that the bushing is supposed to "float" between the housing and the sun gear. Anyone know if the bushing is supposed to be pressed into placed or float in the sun gear???? Couldn't test drive today since I want to give the Tight 24 hours to dry before I use it. Hopefully it will work OK.

[HubbardRA]

Good show. I was expecting that, between the two units, you would be able to find enough good parts to put one complete working unit together. Glad it worked out for you. Now, I just hope I don't have any problems with my planetary unit on the AC713S, since I gave my spare to you. :D

[Roy]

Strongly recommend you pop the cap off the unit, oil the planetary gears, and pack some grease in the housing. Unit you gave me failed due to lack of lubrication on the planetary gear bearings. Think I should try welding up my worn housing??

[HubbardRA]

Since you have the machine (lathe), I would turn the old housing down till it is relatively smooth but still has some thickness to it, then I would machine a band to go over it from a piece of pipe or some type of raw stock material. Make the ID of the band an interference fit with the OD of the housing. Put the housing in the freezer overnight, and heat the band in the oven for a couple hours. Make some type of alignment jig so that you can just pop the pieces together and they will be lined up. When they touch each other for just a few seconds, they will never come apart again. I suggest this because of the warpage to the housing if you try welding it up.

[IronPony]

Sure hope to read some follow-up on Rod's suggestion. Pictures of the process would be great. Dan aka IronPony

[Roy]

Might be a while. I don't have a boring bar holder or bars yet. :(

[rsnik]

I came across a 3414S and a 7013S one right after the other and bought both late this last fall. The 3414S was owned by a building contractor and very well taken care of. The engine was replaced with a 16 horizontal Briggs and he said the planetary drive had been recently torn down and serviced. The housing looks newish and the surface is perfect under the band, which looks newish. He was leaving for Arizona so I can't ask him where they found a new housing or if a machine shop turned the old one. I bought the 7013S from a used car lot in Saybrook CT and it had just received a major service including new Str/Gen, ammeter, battery, carb, air clnr, points etc. The lights all work and man does she run sweet! However the surface under the band on the planetary housing looks groovy like a worn brake drum. She backs up just dandy but I think I should tear the planetary unit down and grease it up before putting the machine to serious use. 30 years ago I used to throw new brake shoes into grooved brake drums if the drum was too thin to turn and I didn't have the bucks for a new drum and the brakes worked fine after they broke in. Might knock down a few mailboxes before the car quit pulling violently to the right but at the end of the day it worked fine when the grooves wore into the shoe. Both Barons make a characteristic loud gear noise when you back up but I assume this is normal as they both make the exact same noise and the 3414S is supposed to have a rebuilt planetary. That noise, however, really makes me want to have lots of grease in there.

[HubbardRA]

rsnik, My AC713S does not make any noise when I back up. You may want to check the gears inside the planetary as Roy said.

[D-17_Dave]

Looks like a lot of nice parts here. the electric lift alone is worth 250.00 http://cgi.ebay.com/simplicity-7014-baron-shuttle-for-parts-nice-wis_W0QQitemZ130065924172QQihZ003QQcategoryZ82242QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[rsnik]

Rod, My day just went in the tank. Both the Baron shuttles make basically a howling gear noise when you back up. I thought that was normal since they both do it. Boy am I glad Roy put up this post. Saved me from destroying both of them.

[MikeES]

So what does make the noise with a shuttle? Is it the reverse band, the neutral brake rubbing or is there something inside? And if inside why do they all sound like rubbing metal against metal? My 3414S Baron makes some noise in reverse and the planetary gear set is full of grease.

[rsnik]

I replaced the neutral stop on both Baron shuttles and adjusted them to stop the planetary in neutral. My gear noises (loud, kind of howling) sound like the planetary gears engaged and spinning around the sun gear. I thought this was normal since there is a lot of commotion going on inside a housing that is a natural sound amplifier, practically like the body of an acoustical guitar. Don't have time to do it right now (uh, UCD, help!) but I guess the first step is research the topic and find info on tear down and what to look for in terms of wear. Maybe under discussions there should be another category called "Planetary guys who just found out the howling noise ain't OK"

[MPH]

Gee Rod, I thought you were suppose to just put one piece outside and the other on top the wood stove duing tractor rebuilding season:D:D

[D-17_Dave]

Shuttle guys, I just got 3 words. Hydro,Hydro,Hydro......

[HubbardRA]

Dave, I have two hydros and a three-speed, in addition to the shuttle. I figured I would use the shuttle to mow the lawn, so that I wouldn't wear out the good trannys.:D:D

[D-17_Dave]

quote:

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Originally posted by HubbardRA
Dave, I have two hydros and a three-speed, in addition to the shuttle. I figured I would use the shuttle to mow the lawn, so that I wouldn't wear out the good trannys.:D:D

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Rod, remember I've seen your yard. You'd be hard to wear out a push mower:o):D

[HubbardRA]

Dave, Shhhh! Becky might hear you. She thinks I need all those tractors.[:0]:D:D Marty, It is hard to do the shrink fit when the outside temperature here in Virginia is running in the 60s and 70s (notice that there is no negative sign in front of these numbers), and the woodstove is not even cranked up. It's even worse down there in Tennessee where Roy lives. We just don't have all the advantages of living in Alaska. :D

[rsnik]

I researched posts on shuttles and planetary reverse and it sounds like, other than Rod's, shuttles are all noisy in reverse (shuttles are not usually owned by mechanical engineers that rebuilt the planetary to specs and tolerances that make the space shuttle look flimsy). However, the noisy thing is probably not a good thing and probably explains a post from Biggie Rat at one point saying he had 2 nice shuttles he would have to part out because of no interest. I have tremendous respect for Biggie Rat. He consistently presents the best tractors for sale on ebay. Reading the above posts I can't help but ask: D-17 what's up with Are we Haveing Fun? The word "having" has no "e" in it. That's why you like A-C. It's easy to spell! Anyway, it's cheaper to keep 'er. There are lots of posts about noisy shuttles but few reports of failure. I am going to grease 'um up and drive 'um till they drop.

[HubbardRA]

rsnik, My shuttle is out of a Homelite T13 and it remains just as I bolted it in when johnmonkey gave it to me. It has not been rebuilt. I have never taken it apart. It does not make any loud grinding gear spinning sounds. This one is the only one I have ever owned and the only one I have ever driven, so I don't know how they are "supposed" to sound. As I said, it is not noisy in reverse. You seem to be calling me a liar by your remark: "shuttles are not usually owned by mechanical engineers that rebuilt the planetary to specs and tolerances that make the space shuttle look flimsy". I guess you figured it out, so why don't you just grease up your shuttle. . . .

[Bunky]

I had a 3410S and everyone told me that if it was Noisy that it was going bad.. So i picked up a parts tractor 3 speed and figured that if It went bad i would do a swap, Well I used that tractor alot it was noisy in reverse and I asked a retired Simplicty Dealer about the Noise he said that they were Noisy out of the Crate and to keeps ome grease int he and it would be fine.. and I used it 3 or so years like that.. The only problem I had was that I had to keep adjusting the reverse band, I would like to see pictures of this repair also Because i would buy another shuttle in a second

[rsnik]

Whoa! Looks like we shot the possum out of the tree with that one. Go Rod! Great to see some testosterone in play! Rod, I do like you and I apologize if I gave you the idea I was disrespecting you or your work (can't apologize for making you mad as I rather enjoyed that LOL). You were talking about heating and freezing parts to remanufacture the planetary housing and I know you are a mechanical engineer with decades of experience so it would be likely for you to remanufacture your planetary, although in all honesty I was just joshing you! No hard feelings here, in fact, it's great to see you blowing off steam (everybody likes Paul Teutul Sr.) Best, rsnik

[HubbardRA]

rsnik, Yes, I do have somewhat of a temper. I really have to work to keep my personal feelings out of my discussions on this site. Usually it is not a problem, but you just caught me in a mood where I sort of went off. :I My comment about shrinking the tube over the housing was made because Roy just recently purchased a very nice lathe. Also because I felt that welding up that part could cause too much warpage for the part to work correctly afterward. Also, since I gave him the housing that he is now using, he had a spare to play with. Roy is a retired engineer, so I knew he would understand what I was saying. ;) You should have heard enough of my solutions by now to know that I am totally opposite of your description. I am always the one who takes the short-cut or jackleg approach, rather than going through the formal/proper way of doing things. Do you do the formal $400 engine rebuild, or do you just check the parts and do one of my $40 rebuilds (rings only)? Do you rebuild an engine because it is knocking, or do you just take a file and file off the rod cap till the clearance is right and put it back together? Been doing the short-cut way all my life and gotten away with it. I am a jackleg and a cheapskate from the word go. I would never do it the way you said. [:0] Did I just get insulted becaused I was accused of being much better than I really am? Guess I am just a "blue collar" person, who works in a "white collar" profession. :D

[MPH]

We just don't have all the advantages of living in Alaska. better add a few of these here to clarify myself:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[rsnik]

Hey Rod, Well, I have promised UCD to strive to be a better person despite being a redneck at heart. Your stock has gone way up with me. I don't like a man who is mean but I like a man with a temper. Honestly, how many manly man guys do you know who don't have a temper? Best, rsnik