hi lo vs shuttle

[DMedal 1]

I'm pretty much new here, and need some help figuring out transmissions. I am repairing (engine only, I hope) a 2012 3 spd w/ duals and have gotten really curious about the hi-low gear option. I've searched and not found this discussed enough for me to get my head around. I gather this is something else the rest of you already know. I get confused tho that some seem to refer to this as a shuttle, and there's a shuttle drive on the later models that looks much the same but appears to be a totally different unit. Does the shuttle drive also provide a lo-lo? are they completely different things? What I want is great pulling power for plowing. Don

[bob1959 0]

I have a b-12 and a b-112. The b-12 has HI-Lo and the b-112 has the shuttle drive. They are two different animals in how they work and how they are attached. The HI-Lo is a self contained unit with a gear reductions built into it and fits onto the transmission drive shaft with no modification to the shaft. There is a shift level that attaches to the drive and comes out under the seat pan on the right side as you set on the tractor. The shuttle drive is a set of pulleys on the BGB and the transmission that expand and contract to adjust the drive belt to very speed. The shuttle drive requires longer shafts on the BGB and the transmisson not to mention the pulleys and mechinism and levers to adjust.

[MPH 12]

A Hi-low is a gear type two speed that makes a standard 3 speed tratot a 6 speed. Idea for plowing. A shuttle is a different animal I'm not real familar with but know it's is a 4 speed forward and reverse is atained by a , I believe disc, type clutch that allolws forward to reverse without shifting gears.Never had one so don't know much about them.

[Kent 436]

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Originally posted by bob1959
I have a b-12 and a b-112. The b-12 has HI-Lo and the b-112 has the shuttle drive. They are two different animals in how they work and how they are attached. The HI-Lo is a self contained unit with a gear reductions built into it and fits onto the transmission drive shaft with no modification to the shaft. There is a shift level that attaches to the drive and comes out under the seat pan on the right side as you set on the tractor. The shuttle drive is a set of pulleys on the BGB and the transmission that expand and contract to adjust the drive belt to very speed. The shuttle drive requires longer shafts on the BGB and the transmisson not to mention the pulleys and mechinism and levers to adjust.

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The shuttle transmission is not the same as the variable-speed (i.e. Vari-Drive) system. You described the variable speed... The shuttle transmission had four speeds in the SAME direction and used a planetary gear and belt system to reverse the direction of travel. These only became available on the later 300/400 series Allis and 3300/3400 Simplicity machines -- they came a couple years after the variable-speed. If you could find a "low hours" shuttle drive that didn't have worn linkage, they would be almost ideal for loader work since you can reverse the direction of travel without clutching the tractor, similar to how you do that with a hydrostatic drive. People who have shuttle drives in good condition swear by them -- people who have word shuttle drives seem to not like them, since they require frequent adjustment... Note that a shuttle also gives you 4-speeds in reverse, should you want to live dangerously... :D

[D-17_Dave 12]

Bob and Marty are correct about the Hi-Low. It is an option you can ad to your 2012 which when engaged reduces each tranny gear by a percentage ratio reducing your ground speed. A shuttle is a forward/reverse selected transmission. It has a 4 speed tranny and either forward or reverse is selected by moving the large control lever on the right. It is controlled by a split v-belt pulley and a brake band piggy back on a set of planetary gears. When new and taken care of this was a great feature. However when 30+ years of use are applied the planetary setups usually have worn out and rendered them inoperable. The shuttles were referred to as a poor mans hydro. This is because they were cheaper than a hydrostatic transmission which was also an option on the later models. You cannot put a shuttle drive on a 2012 without serious modifications and the results would be less than desired. You can put a Hi-Low on your 2012 IF you can find one. They show up on ebay occasionally and they go for around the 200.oo to 300.00 dollar range. You might try looking around your area as popularity of these fine machines someone in your area might have one sitting in a shed or parked out back rusting away that may have these more desired options and you can get the whole tractor for parts cheaper than just the option. The "shuttle" that Bob described is a variable tranny option with a control lever on the side which gives you different speed selections in any of the standard 3 speeds or reverse through a belt drive variable rate pulley setup. These worked well again until the mechanism had worn itself to the point parts started to bind. The only option from the factory for you tractor was the Hi-Low. And welcome to the club.

[Kent 436]

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Originally posted by duckman
I'm pretty much new here, and need some help figuring out transmissions. I am repairing (engine only, I hope) a 2012 3 spd w/ duals and have gotten really curious about the hi-low gear option. I've searched and not found this discussed enough for me to get my head around. I gather this is something else the rest of you already know. I get confused tho that some seem to refer to this as a shuttle, and there's a shuttle drive on the later models that looks much the same but appears to be a totally different unit. Does the shuttle drive also provide a lo-lo? are they completely different things? What I want is great pulling power for plowing. Don

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The high-low for the older tractors, such as your 2012 are completely different animals. The one for your tractor is a two-speed pulley. Here's the Installation/Operation manual that shows it: http://www.simpletractors.com/operation/high-low/high-low.htm Note that there was a later version high-low for the 700 Series Allis and 7000 Series Simplicity that did use a system of double pulleys and belts to shift between speed ranges. These are typically called 6-Speeds in the brochures and manuals, though they are really a 3-speed with a high-low range. The shuttle was a totally different adaptation of the same old Simplicity 3-speed transmission case. Instead of having a reverse gear, it had 4 speeds in the same direction, and a planetary gear system changed the direction of travel -- you had four speeds forward and four in reverse...

[DMedal 1]

ok, so what I want is the hi-lo gear, not shuttle, to give me 6 speeds for plowing. any hi-lo gear I find is going to be 40 yrs old. My tractor must have been shedded or stuck in a time warp because it's in great shape compared to a (unrestored) 1967 Chevy, but what do you guys think of the likely condition of a used hi-low gear set? Am I going to pay a lot of $$ for a worn out gear? Or don't they wear out? thanks to all, Don

[Kent 436]

The high/lows are not that prone to wear, and you can reverse the little planetary gears inside the pulley to make them wear in a new spot. Note though, that almost all the replacement parts for them are no longer available. If all you want to do is get a lower gear for pulling a plow, you can also run a larger pulley on the transmission that gives the same effect as having a lower-geared (higher number) rear axle in a car or truck. It makes ALL the speeds slower. There was a 10" pulley available in the "Low Speed Kit" for Simplicity 700/725 and B-1s. When the HP was increased to 9HP with the 1964 Landlord 990314 or Early B-10 Allis, they used a 9" rear pulley for the Low Speed Kit. When the HP was increased to 10 and 12, they offered an 8" pulley in the Low Speed Kit. Any of them would work on your tractor... Note, though, that a 10" pulley makes 1st gear very, very slow -- you could likely crawl and keep up with it, when the engine is running at full throttle... These rear pulleys are so easy to change that you could use a separate belt/pulley combination for plowing then change over for mowing... Many serious tractor pullers have pulley/belt combinations in several sizes to they can "dial in" to different conditions of the specific track they're pulling on.

[DMedal 1]

Thanks, Kent - I'll try the pulley change if needed until I can accumulate enough sofa change to get the hi-lo piece on eBay, and yes, I know I'll pretty much have to buy a whole tractor to get one, or at least pay as much. I forsee a number of these red beasts in my future anyway.

[johnmonkey 4]

Welcome to the club, as demonstrated by the amount of replies, you can become a member for 10.00 per year and then you could post pictures. JH

[tec2484 1]

Heck the pictures that marty (MPH) posts are worth the $10.

[Kent 436]

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Originally posted by tec2484
Heck the pictures that marty (MPH) posts are worth the $10.

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Wait until you see the "picture functions" that we're working on for the updated version of the clubhouse... ;)

[MPH 12]

"Wait until you see the "picture functions" that we're working on for the updated version of the clubhouse..." oh No, everytime you make it nicer it takes me 3 months to figure it out. Oh well, can't post from home now anyway.

[Kent 436]

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Originally posted by MPH
oh No, everytime you make it nicer it takes me 3 months to figure it out. Oh well, can't post from home now anyway.

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Actually Marty, one of the primary reasons why we're replacing the stuff that's there is to try to get rid of all the red X's and such that happen with the current one... :I:I Meanwhile, we'll try to make it as easy to use as possible and develop written instructions for it that will be included in the Help... :)

[Roy 0]

Easier picture up loading will be a welcome improvement. ^ I look forward to it.

[4xbill 2]

Welcome! Best $10 bucks I'v spent. Go for it. Membership is cheap, it's the addiction that may cost a little. Tractors seem to multiply at my house.

[MPH 12]

How long before this happens Kent? Maybe I'll wait to upgrade my internet to DSL for an extra 30 bucks a month so I can upload pictures at home again. Local provides swears they've changed nothing, best I can guess is part of the internal modum in this putter went splat.

[Kent 436]

Marty, it'll be ready in less than a month, I hope. We're doing a total overhaul, and that is just one of the things we're doing. We may end up having to do two releases, but I don't want to keep the place in a state of flux either... We'll do it like we did the last time -- we'll allow you to preview it and get used to it before we replace everything and force you to use it. That also helps us test it. For example, I can't test it on a Mac -- I don't have one...

[ambler 0]

And here I thought that you were just busy building your Bunker in Tennessee.

[MPH 12]

Thanks Kent. I'll likely make it through it, servived 3 so far:):)

[Tacey 0]

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Originally posted by duckman
...I forsee a number of these red beasts in my future anyway.

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duckman, please note: These beasts are orange or yellow, not red (try Googling "wheelhorse", "toro", or "crapsman", er, I mean "craftsman", if you want red beasts. Or maybe "case"). Also, proceed with extreme caution! I came here looking for info, and now I have three orange beasts! And I'm constantly looking for another! Beware! (You'll thank me later). Better safe than sorry. Tacey

[dlcentral 1]

good on pics finally will post some snowthrower shots of last yr with diesel power,, Shuttles were called poor man hydros yrs. ago,like Kent stated work good when new but NO parts support now for them so,,scrap iron is a $100 a ton,currently,

[DMedal 1]

quote:

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Originally posted by Tacey

quote:

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Originally posted by duckman
...I forsee a number of these red beasts in my future anyway.

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duckman, please note: These beasts are orange or yellow, not red (try Googling "wheelhorse", "toro", or "crapsman", er, I mean "craftsman", if you want red beasts. Or maybe "case"). Also, proceed with extreme caution! I came here looking for info, and now I have three orange beasts! And I'm constantly looking for another! Beware! (You'll thank me later). Better safe than sorry. Tacey

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ut-oh. So I have to repaint it orange if I join the club? and yeah, I can see they multiply. the wife and kid already say we need a bigger garage now(we're building one in the summer, so... what, 2 stalls for tractors?) Don

[tec2484 1]

2 years ago I like Tacey came looking for info on a 728. And now have, 1 728 2 738 1 B-210 1 squire 9 1 16LTH a husky 12hp a power tech 12hp a crapsman 15hp 5 decks 2 tillers 3 blades 2 carts 1 roller an extra rear end and still looking for more STUFF!!!