Hard Starting Allis

[sunalp4 0]

Hi Everyone! I haven't posted here before, but read the forum almost everyday and get such good information about my tractor that I would be hard pressed to find anywhere else! I have an Allis 916H that, at the moment, won't start. We had about 20" of snow last Friday and after my snowblower gave up I wanted to plow with the tractor. It has always turned over slowly but now acts like there's very little charge on the battery. I went to the CarQuest store across the street & bought a new battery (22NF) and still turns like a dead battery. Changed out the starter relay and still no joy! When I pull the plug out, it spins freely. I love & really need this tractor so if anyone know what might be wrong I'd really appreciate the help.(we had to shovel out the whole driveway which is about 100' long!) Thanks! Steve

[Willy 2]

Hi Steve Sounds like you might have a bad connestion,clean your cable connections at both ends,espscily the ground. If that don't do it I would supect the starter. Good luck!!
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[sunalp4 0]

Thanks Jim! I've been through the cables and did clean them up when I put the new battery & starter relay in and they seem fine.( I will check the ground on the engine.) If the starter is bad would it still spin the engine fine when the plug is removed? It seems that when there's compression, the starter just won't spin fast enough. Thanks! Steve

[UCD 14]

What weight oil do you have in it. In winter conditions It should at least be a 10w-30. I run 5W-30 in my 12hp - 16hp briggs and 17hp Kohler tractors and 0W-40 in the 7790 18½hp diesel. All turn over freely at 0°

[MPH 12]

I currently have a friends gear drive starter 16hp Briggs gilson sitting in my shop. had wiring problems, got that figured out to find the starter would only spin the engine slow without the plug in and barely turn over with it in. Took the starter apart to clean and found one of the magnets broke loose from the housing, gluing it back on didn't work, now waitting for new starter to show. I'd say pull the starter off and take it across the street to get it checked.

[sunalp4 0]

Right now I'm running 5-30 synthetic. It wasn't even that cold on Saturday, somewhere around 40. I started it up to move it out of the garage, used the snowblower and then no start. Would a starter go that quickly? I have to say that this tractor has never started well. We used to have a 416S that started much better (sometimes wish I'd kept it!) The local tractor guy said something about cold cranking amps , but this battery has 350 CCA so I figured that'd be enough. I brought the battery and starter up to him a few years ago & said that the starter was good. I don't think this is an oil issue because it's the same winter or summer.I'd really like to figure this one out. Thanks for your replies! Steve

[sunalp4 0]

That does sound like a plan! I will have the starter checked, but like I said last time it checked out OK. Maybe the tractor guy didn't check it correctly? He just put power to it and it spun. Is there a test to see what it does under load? Thanks! Steve

[UCD 14]

It can be tested with a amp draw tester. This has a collar that clamps around the positive cable to the starter then engage the stater. It tells how many amps the starter is drawing and a very good indication of starter condition. Not having access to one of these testers I would take it to a Alternator & starter repair shop and have it tested on there machine. If it is bad they can rebuild it. And yes a starter can work fine shut the engine of and five min. latter it will will not.

[MPH 12]

You might try running a new heavy gauge wire or use jumpper cables from the seliniod to the starter inorder to bypass the current wire. Possible it has a problem and not getting enough juice to the starter to pull good.

[HubbardRA 19]

350 CCA is marginal for those tractors. 350 is a garden tractor battery. They are supposed to have a 22NF battery in them. Most people that I know use the 51R battery. I have two of them. I think they are around 575 CCA. I thought I had a bad starter-generator on one of my tractors, because it acted the same as yours. I replaced the garden tractor battery with a 51R and it starts great. If you can jump start it off a car, and the starter turns good, then it needs a larger battery. The 51R is available at WalMart for about $45, and has a good warranty. I think mine was two year free replacement, and pro-rated to six years, or something like that.

[sunalp4 0]

You know, I think that's what the tractor guy said! I'll try jumping the tractor tonight & see what happens. I'll let you know how it goes! Thanks for all your input! Cheers! Steve

[D-17_Dave 12]

Besides the problem of bad connections, there could be a bad connection inside the bat. cable ends. When you try to start it under load there should be no heat buildup on any of the connections or the cables. Heat is an indication of resistance from a bad connection. Jumping the tractor may add voltage and enough amps to mask the problem so try starting it for 10 secounds with the current bat. and feel all the cables, pos. and neg. to see if you have a hot connection.

[sunalp4 0]

OK, Thanks! Looks like I have my evening all planned out. I'll let everyone know how I make out. Thanks again! Steve

[DarrylF 0]

I hate to admit it, but I had a similar problem on a 916. After trying a lot of generally electrical stuff, it finally started, reluctantly. After running for about a minute the cone clutch started smoking, even though the lever was disengaged. The clutch was partially engaged due to a broken spring retainer clip in the clutch, a 60 cent part. That was the real reason it was turning too slow to start, but it never hurts to do a good tune up and shine up all those electrical connections. You might want to look at the cone clutch before you spend a lot of money elsewhere. Darryl

[sunalp4 0]

Well, I tried jump starting with the car, no joy! Tried cleaning the terminals, again no joy! There isn't any heat build up on the terminals or starter. Darryl, what cone clutch are you talking about? The only one that I know about is the PTO cone clutch, and that's fairly new. Is there another one? I think tomorrow night I'm taking the tractor apart, battery out & gas tank out. I'm going to clean every connection I can find in the wholw electrical system. Now I just have to find a plae to take the starter to that can properly test it. Thanks again guys for your help. Somethings gota work! Cheers! Steve

[DMedal 1]

the PTO clutch idea is a really good one, anything that could load down the engine. I started to pull the V8 out of my truck because it was extremely hard to turn over, was stuck as far as the starter was concerned. Fortunately along the way I noticed the alternator was froze. So anything in the drive train that might load it down (like that pesky clutch) is suspect as much as the starter. (a rope pull would come in handy here). I've already heard Maynard say several times that it is the stuff you're sure it *isn't* that come back and bite you, that's just so true in troubleshooting. And sometimes those are the cheap fixes anyway. Good luck. let us know. ----- OOPS I was wrong. If it turns over nice with the plug out it isn't bound up somewhere else, it just lacks starter "ummph". Starter, cables, ground connection, battery, what the others have told you. you can eliminate everything but the starter out of the equation if you jump from a known good (car) battery directly to the starter.

[Al 6]

Hi, I would suspect the compression release on the camshaft is not functioning properly. I would check the starter motor first. Kohler has a little mechanism in the cam lobe that is centrifugally disabled when the engine is running that drops the compression for starting. If the starter is not the problem, post and I will try to address fixing this problem without pulling the engine. Al Eden

[sunalp4 0]

Thanks Al, I was thinking of that compression release. I'll check out the starter and let you know how it goes.Hopefully that's what the problem is. How complicated is fixing the compression release? Thanks! Steve

[HubbardRA 19]

Even if the compression release is not working, it should crank over well enough from a car battery. I have a 10 Hp B/S without a compression release that is in my 716H. It starts regularly first time over, being driven from a 51R battery. It will not start with one of those garden tractor batteries. As I said, it has "no" compression release. I know, because I filed the compression release bump off the camshaft myself, back when I was using that engine for tractor pulling.

[sunalp4 0]

I haven't ruled out the battery as at least one of the culprits in this caper! I'll check out the cone clutch tonight. Of course that means taking the winter cab off, but spring does start tomorrow! You'd never know it as we've got about 2 feet of snow on the ground! Had a couple of inches last night to top it off! I'll let everyone know how I make out! Thanks again for all your help! Steve

[DarrylF 0]

It was the PTO cone clutch, sorry I wasn't specific. Good luck! Darryl

[sunalp4 0]

OK, I took the cone clutch off & turns over the same way so I'll have the starter checked out next. Are the pulleys supposed to turn harder that the disk? I could barely turn them by hand. Just not sure if that's normal or not. I'll let you know how it goes with the starter. Thanks! Steve