Attention Electrical Wizards ( updated )

[Mike 0]

I was lawn sweeping with my 916h last nite, I was going over some bumpy ground and the tractor sputtered backfired and quit. Won't turn over with key. Does turn by hand and has compression. Initial thought is a wire connection broke somewhere. Checked battery - good. Tried jump starting still no cranking. Got out test lite and tried to trace power.key on, power to coil no power to points though. Tried starter with jumper cables works. This would lead me to think solonoid or power to it, however this shouldn't cause the tractor to quit. Other thought I have is bad coil or condensor, still wouldn't explain engine not turning over. Only other thought I have is nuetral switch, which actually would make the most sense, starting and running. Please chime in with any thoughts. I'll rip into it after work today, I'm still busy taking care of all the great Mother's out there! Removed battery and gas tank. Cleaned out all old grass etc. Found a wire that had come off. Lets see if anyone can guess which wire and it wasn't at the ign switch.

[DMedal 1]

Mike- Sorry this is long. I'm trying to be precise with troubleshooting. You say power to coil, so I'm thinking you have an automotive type ignition with separate coil fed from the battery. how are you testing for power, by the way? Because we sometimes get off on the wrong fork in the road due to misunderstanding symptoms, please confirm: a) it stopped while running, as if you'd turned the key off. b) you do have a separate automotive type coil. c) when you try to start now it won't turn the engine over. if all these are true you have some sort of failure in the wiring, which is good because it is cheap. Often this is a ground failure, so make a quick check that your battery's negative terminal has a good and very solid connection to ground. While you're at it check that the positive connection at the battery is also good but I'm skeptical about that one. then I think troubleshoot the simple one first, failure to turn starter. a) power between battery positive terminal and engine block? (ground) b) repeat test (a)with switches in "start" situation, including safety switches. c) power at smaller of the solonoid wires when the key is turned? i) if you have a separate solonoid, power at the starter when switches in starting mode? ii) if solonoid is integral to the starter, do you hear anything? You're going to work down that check list and find some point where you have no power. If all these were yes, then you need a starter or solonoid, but that didn't happen suddenly while driving and cause the thing to stop. By the way, you can read voltage with a meter when there isn't enough current behind it to do useful work. That's common with bad ground conditions. So turn on headlights. (oh, do headlights work?) -Don

[goatfarmer 817]

If it has a battery ignition, it could be the battery is bad. Might show voltage on a meter, but not hold under a load test.

[Mike 0]

It is a kohler with auto type coil. And A,B and C are correct.

[wilm169 1]

Pull the battery, and look under the dash down under the battery stand there is a circuit breaker in there that might be bad or any wire that is scuffed, they have a problem if they are scuffed off they will corroding in two. Found one on my neighbor's 916 that way. Also check if the amp guage came unpluged.

[BLT 725]

There is a Bosch relay in circuit and it affects operation. Had starting problems until I found relay had a bad ground.

[rbw1052 0]

Does your tractor have a safety switch under the seat? It shuts down engine if you get off the seat while mower is engaged. This switch could be unplugged or defective. Seeing how you were running over rough ground this could be a possibility. Just a thought. Good luck!:)

[PatRarick 1]

quote:

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Originally posted by Mike
Only other thought I have is nuetral switch, which actually would make the most sense, starting and running.

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Mike, the neutral switch as well as the PTO switch, will affect cranking only. The only switch that would affect both starting and running is the ignition switch.

quote:

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Originally posted by BLT
There is a Bosch relay in circuit and it affects operation. Had starting problems until I found relay had a bad ground.

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Bob, are you speaking of the starter relay (solenoid), or am I missing something?

[Mike 0]

There is some kind of electrical block adjascent to the nuetral safety switch, it did appear to be in 2 pieces......first thing I'll check wken I get home from work....Thanks everyone........fortunately I have a complete spare tractor to rob parts from...

[DMedal 1]

Mike- Unless you find something obviously broken, I suggest test before replacing parts. Unless maybe you just want to do a total electrical system replace for some reason. sm01 -Don

[PatRarick 1]

At first I assumed a wire had come off of the circuit breaker, but that isn't possible if you had power to the coil with the ignition switch in the "ON" position. Since you did have power to the coil, I would say that the energizer wire for the starter relay (solenoid) had come off.

[DMedal 1]

No fair, Pat - I bet you used a wiring diagram. But.. a solenoid wire would not have killed the motor in the first place, would it? This is more like a riddle or perhaps an impossibility. Juice to the coil wire does jinx a lot of possibilities. Hmmm. I'm staying tuned. -Don

[Mike 0]

Ok I won't keep you guys in suspense any longer. The wire on one side of the ammeter came off, It's a good idea to check those connections, because it's just male/female connection. The wires are on with nuts and washers now though. Tractor runs like a champ again! My wife comes out to see what I'm doing , looks at me and says, "maybe it's time for a john Deere" I said I don't think so, but it might be time for a zero turn mower, and she said " go ahead "

[DMedal 1]

nice move, Mike. don't let on you *like* working on them tractors. so who's gonna drive the Z ?

[Mike 0]

My son claims he'll mow the lawn if we get a z, that translates to one or 2 times if I'm lucky............I also priced out a new prestige the other day, for 6200.00 I'll keep the old girl going............

[DMedal 1]

quote:

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Originally posted by Mike
My son claims he'll mow the lawn if we get a z, that translates to one or 2 times if I'm lucky............I also priced out a new prestige the other day, for 6200.00 I'll keep the old girl going............

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you're referring to tractor or wife?

[Mike 0]

Tractor of course....................

[PatRarick 1]

Now I'm a little puzzled here. I believe the power wire comes from the battery side of the solenoid, to the circuit breaker, to the ammeter, then to the ignition switch. If a wire came off the ammeter, it would cut power to the switch. With the battery ignition, the engine would die. BUT, you state in your troubleshooting that you did have power to the coil. I would have to assume that the wire didn't come off completely so there was at least SOME contact, possibly intermittant?

[Mike 0]

That puzzled me too Pat. Been pondering it all day. The wire must have been making contact on my first day of troubleshooting, just not enough to power the solonoid, on day 2 when I pulled the tank it must have gotten completely knocked off. About 2 inches of the wire was messed up as if it had overheated, most likely from resistance by rattling on it's connection. Only explanation I can think of. Thanks for the help anyway........Mike

[DMedal 1]

I'm pretty sure what happened was that the connection overheated, probably due to corrosion or some such. At that point those spade type push on connectors loose all their latching strength. That's all I can think of that would have caused your wire to overheat. Because your meter doesn't draw much you saw juice at the coil (probably with points open). But there was no longer a real solid connection there. Good thing you did nuts and washers this time. Now if the nuts will stay tight! If you'd simply plugged the overheated connector on this would happen again. congrats -Don