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Isleblue65

Automotive coil conversion on 7016

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Isleblue65
Has anybody converted their 7000 series Sovereign from Magneto coil to a Kohler internal resistor coil (automotive style)? I found the following article on converting a 1963 725, but wiring is much more basic on the tractor in the write up. http://www.simpletractors.com/do_it/magneto_to_coil.htm Since the magneto generates its own voltage through magnets on the flywheel (does not have 12 volts going into it from the ignition switch), I will have to tap off of the ignition switch somewhere (it is a 5 pin switch) to bring 12 volts into the new coil. I can figure it out, but it's always better to learn from experience first. Thanks, Craig

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BrianP
Craig, I did exactly that mod on my 7016. I went to the local Autozone and bought an old-style (cylindrical) coil with an internal resistor. For power to the coil, I kept it simple, I removed one of the plastic plugs from the dash and installed a simple toggle switch. Then, I took power from where the positive cable hooks to the solenoid and I was back in business. There are ignition switches out there from Kohler powered models that eliminate the need for a toggle switch, but for me the toggle switch works just fine. I mounted the coil in an upright position on the front of the block, behind the grille for max airflow. I don't think the motor even spins over twice before firing up. Big improvement over the magneto and I didn't have to pull the engine to replace the magneto. I did replace the mag on my 3410 once, but after all the effort the darned magneto quit again after 6 months. I run an automotive coil on both of my machines and have been most pleased with the results.

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Isleblue65
Brian, Thanks a lot for the comments! I like the idea of the toggle switch. I thought that the stock ignition switch had a lead that was hot when the key was turned on, and stayed hot during starting, but I could be wrong. If this is the case, I'll probably tap off of that for power to the coil. If not, I will do as you suggest with the toggle. As far as the coil mounting, that is another thing I am wondering how I'm going to do it. The exhaust is in the front of the motor, so I don't know how I would put it there. If you have photos or a detailed description of how you mounted it, bracket used, etc. that would be great. There really aren't a whole lot of other places within 2 feet spark plug wire length of the plug to mount a coil. Thanks, Craig

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HubbardRA
Craig, I am pretty sure I did. I just need to look, so I can clear up my foggy mind. Did that 20 years ago, and even though I use it regularly, I don't remember the fine details. PM me if I don't get back with a picture.

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KraigRG
When I changed my 314 Landlord I bolted the coil right to a head bolt with the bracket that came with the coil. Just like Brian, I went to Autozone and bought an old style coil but got an external resistor for mine. I also changed the ignition switch with one from an 8N Ford that I bought at Tractor Supply. It's built for battery ignition and key positions are same as for original switch (makes it more idiot proof for me ;)) There's nothing like the battery ignition in the middle of the winter when the old girl turns over kinda slow:D.

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BrianP
Okay, you wanted pictures...you got pictures. This first shot shows how I used some spare parts I had lying around to fab up a bracket. I had 2 goals, good airflow and upright mounting position. With careful planning, I was able to use a threaded hole in the front of the block to mount the coil:


Here's another angle shot close up and personal:


As for where I tapped a power source, again I kept it simple and added a wire to the battery side of the solenoid. The wire looks pink in this shot, but it's what I had in my scrap wire drawer so why not?


Not wanting to hack up my dash, I used an existing hole and a single pole single throw switch from my parts bin.


Another reason I found this location perfect was the shortness of the primary (spark plug) wire. I bought old fashioned solid core for the hottest spark possible. Probably creates static on any nearby radios though. I tried to get a shot to show the clearance between the muffler and the spark plug wire. It looks closer in this shot than it actually is on the machine. Either way thought it's been running fine for 3 years now with no contact with the muffler or even any heat related cracking.


Just remember the power from your switch goes to the positive terminal on the coil and the negative terminal of the coil goes to your points. Thats it!

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HubbardRA
Here are a couple pictures of the coil mount on my 716H with a 243431 B/S engine and battery-coil ignition. This has a low mount starter which is not the standard for the Simplicity tractors. This setup also uses an automotive ignition switch. This is a Kohler coil with internal ballast.




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Isleblue65
Excellent guys! Thanks for the great photos and write ups on this. Looks fairly straight forward. I'll add a few pics of my set up once my parts get here from Jack's and I install them. Really appreciate the help here. Craig

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DMedal
Brian- If I understand your wiring right, there is no fuse/breaker in the circuit. Should the coil fail or more likely a wire get pinched, there is nothing to limit the amount of current the battery puts into the circuit. In a second that wire burns the insulation off and melts. You don't want that to happen around oily grass clippings under the gas tank while 200 feet from the nearest fire extinguisher. Not that your tractor would have oily grass clippings or drip gas. All circuits which draw power from the battery need a fuse or breaker. The stock ignition doesn't need this because its power comes from the flywheel coil which doesn't have enough power to burn wires. -Don

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HubbardRA
Don, I have to admit to you that I currently have two tractors with no fuse of any kind in the wiring. I actually do that for a reason. I got tired of tracing wires for hours trying to find out why the fuze was blowing. I finally decided to just run minimum size wire to all circuits, and then all I had to do was replace the burned up wire. I know that is not the politically correct way, and it is not the safest, but "it is worth having the fire extinguisher strapped on the fender if it makes finding the problem much easier".:D You can put that on my tombstone when I burn up in a garden tractor fire.

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DMedal
quote:
Originally posted by HubbardRA
Don, I have to admit to you that I currently have two tractors with no fuse of any kind in the wiring. I actually do that for a reason. I got tired of tracing wires for hours trying to find out why the fuze was blowing. I finally decided to just run minimum size wire to all circuits, and then all I had to do was replace the burned up wire. I know that is not the politically correct way, and it is not the safest, but "it is worth having the fire extinguisher strapped on the fender if it makes finding the problem much easier".:D
I think I'm done laughing now enough to type again. I've worked as a car mechanic specializing on wiring (Cadillac), an electrician apprentice, an electronics repairman and now an electrical engineer who tinkers with tractors for fun. I've never heard of this! If your wires are small enough so that they match the load of the coil, for example, then in automotive terms you'd call that a fusible link I guess. the wire IS the fuse. The downside is such a small wire has a lot of resistance. The other downside is when your wire does "fuse" (burn up, that is) it will probably damage whatever else is taped to it in a harness. I've seen two cars nearly totalled by engine fires from this, one a newish Cadillac that had driving lights installed your way and the burning wire set the wiring harness on fire and... Anyway, whatever works. Keep the extinquisher handy. I was happily tilling yesterday when smoke started absolutely pouring out of the S/G - not wiring fault but S/G fault. Fortunately I had a spare. So I'm not going to condemn your smoke troubleshooting technique. If it works for you, that's ok. But I wouldn't recommend it to someone who is scared of fire.
quote:
You can put that on my tombstone when I burn up in a garden tractor fire.
like "Fuse? I don't need no stinking fuses!" LOL -Don

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BrianP
Hmm, I hadn't even considered that Don. I think when I originally tried this mod on my 3410, I was in the middle of mowing (of course) when the magneto quit. This was about 5 years ago, maybe more. I knew I had everything I needed for the conversion in my spare parts bin, but I never thought of adding a fuse. Can anyone tell us shade-tree electricians where to place it in the circuit and what the amperage should be? I definately don't want a fire, it just never occured to me this was necessary. I figured when the switch was off, no current would flow to the coil. I assumed that was enough.

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DMedal
Yes, what Maynard "said". *grin* Where he shows the coil should be hooked is ideal, and is protected by the stock fuse. You can stop reading now. If you have to make a new feed off the battery, as you'd planned, place the fuse as far upstream as is practical. Locate the fuse/breaker as close as practical to your electric source. Actually, you fuse to protect the wire, not the load. you want the fuse to blow before the wire melts. I am thinking a 10 amp fuse would be fine, then the wire gauge should be 16 (or a lower number, thicker wire). anything under that would be better, should be about twice what the coil normally draws. But 10 amp would I think be a nice safe starting number. -Don

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HubbardRA
The fuze usually is sized to handle lights and electric clutches. The coil on one of these does not draw much because the points are only closed for 30 degrees out of every 360 degrees if triggered off the crankshaft or out of every 720 degrees if triggered off the camshaft. I think most of the engines trigger off the crankshaft. Either way, this is not much of a current load.

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Mike
Along time ago I was an automotive apprentice. I was checking why a fuse was blowing on a brand new pontiac, I had an ammeter attached to each side of the fuse, I stepped away for just a second and those leads made contact, it caused an incredible mess. And it wa in the main wiring harness. It burned so many wires that it took me over a week to repair it. Lesson learned. Turns out a headlite wire was pinched behind a bumper bolt.

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Isleblue65
Good advise on the fuse thing. After reading this I came home and put an inline fuse holder with 7.5 amp fuse between the battery and the coil switch on the dash. I'll just have to remember to check the fuse if my tractor suddenly dies or won't start.

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skunkhome
quote:
Originally posted by UCD

[img]/club2/attach/UCD/BatteryIgnitionSystemWiringDiagramModified1.JPG[/img]

Maynard, Would it be possible on a 3414s with starter generator to install an on/off keyed ignition switch and a push button starter switch like the ones on a B-10 to replace the off/run/start switch and solenoid. Then wire for an automotive type coil using the two position keyed switch to control power to the coil.

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gtwygreg
I did this conversion on my 3416H and it's awesome. I'll post some photos when I get a chance. On mine I was able to tap into the ignition switch because it had a switched ON terminal that didn't cut out. Some tractors have a switched on for headlights, but it will cut out when cranking to conserve power, so that won't work. Use a test light if you want to try that setup and make sure power doesn't cut when cranking. Otherwise, it's a cakewalk, the tractor runs strong and I feel it's a better setup to the magneto. Some of the other members were kind enough to give me more detailed info . If you want I can forward it to you.

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UCD
Phil A heavy duty push to start switch will replace the solenoid just as the solenoid replaced the manual switch. You can do alot of things with a switch if wired right. No reason what you suggested shouldn't work.

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